E33, E44, EF-3 Electrics in FUD (Shapeways)

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Plus the wax will screw up the paint over time. I have had some MMM vehicles do funky things when left near heat or even in sunlight. The wax can craze, or move even in a mild temprature change. Think if the etched grills on IM F units and you know what I'm talking about. The only problems is the wax will also lift the paint off the model and create an orange peel effect.

[eric220]

I asked over on Trainboard, and he said that he cleaned the wax off of his FUD parts.

[mark.hinds]

I asked over on Trainboard, and he said that he cleaned the wax off of his FUD parts.

He thinks he cleaned it all off.  Whether that is actually the case is the question, and depends on the technique he used.  If we are talking about the same thread, he all he did is wash it with hot soapy water.  I have also seen some posts in the Yahoo 1/4800 Naval group where guys claim that Shapeways has already removed all the wax, and all that needs to be done is removal of residual oil using detergent.   

MH

[bbussey]

Agreed.  If all the wax was removed, the parts would have a different appearance.

[Bsklarski]

I've already picked up a C628 and am eagerly awaiting the E44 shell. Burkitt said that the E44 would be available some time this month, and when it comes, I'll be sure to post photos. The only thing I haven't figured out yet is decals and pantographs.

I am not near it now, but the Panto off the Kato GG1 SHOULD work. Not sure tho

[eric220]

I am not near it now, but the Panto off the Kato GG1 SHOULD work. Not sure tho

The GG-1 pantographs should work for the E33, but the E44 had two split pantographs.

[Bsklarski]

Hrmm most certianly doable.

[lashedup]

The GG-1 pantographs should work for the E33, but the E44 had two split pantographs.

Eric I would think about emailing him and asking about the holes for the additional parts. They are likely too large if you wanted to bend your own much thinner grabs or other details.  Not sure if you're looking to tackle your own grabs, but it would likely improve the appearance quite a bit.

Just an idea...

-j

[Bsklarski]

Eric I would think about emailing him and asking about the holes for the additional parts. They are likely too large if you wanted to bend your own much thinner grabs or other details.  Not sure if you're looking to tackle your own grabs, but it would likely improve the appearance quite a bit.

Just an idea...

-j

Yes, I agree. If you are going to make your own grabs, I think a respectable panto is something also you can tackle

[Leggy]

Why not check here http://www.ebay.com/sch/N-Scale-/19119/i.html?_from=&_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ssn=plazajapan and use some of the Japanese pantos available?

[Bsklarski]

http://www.tee-usa.com/store/product5757.html

I start here maybe and scratch build

[mmyers05]

Hmm, so since it seems that my Trainboard thread has been mentioned a fair amount over here in this thread, I figured that I should probably make an account so that I could respond to you guys directly.

First off, I definitely clean the wax off of my models much more thoroughly than you guys infer. Is it perfect? Certainly not, but by the time I call them good I would say that they are about 80-90% wax-free (80-90% opaque for lack of a better way to quantify it). I apologize for not having pictures to prove it, I will take some the next time around...

As for the robustness of the painted finish itself: I have actually never built a layout that I did not transport to train shows regularly (and that is my eventual plan here). As such, I decided early on that my FUD cars and locomotives must be robust enough to survive boxing, transportation and display many times a year. Consequently the finish on the locomotive pictured can certainly be "handled." It can be boxed in foam or plastic, picked up, knocked over, dropped on a carpeted floor (have tested that one repeatedly unfortunately) or slid across a table without marring the finish. That said, it certainly is not as robust as painted styrene: tweezers or even a particularly forceful nail scratch can expose white. That said, it is certainly strong enough for everyday handling - one just needs to be especially careful when applying decals or replacing trucks. As for any long term degradation of the paint - the oldest painted car I currently have was finished about two months now (and it looks just as good as the day it dried). Clearly beyond that I have no idea though...   

Finally, as I've said over there, the "faceting" is completely my fault - I chose to use far to few. Luckily that's a design oversight that is relatively easily corrected; my current corrected version uses about four times as facets to make up the boiler.

I hope that clears up a few questions
 

[bbussey]

... First off, I definitely clean the wax off of my models much more thoroughly than you guys infer. Is it perfect? Certainly not, but by the time I call them good I would say that they are about 80-90% wax-free (80-90% opaque for lack of a better way to quantify it). I apologize for not having pictures to prove it, I will take some the next time around...

First - welcome aboard, glad to see you've made it to Railwire.

Regarding the RPs - what are you using to remove the wax from the EX2000 (FUD) plastic?  I'm also curious if you have seen consistent quality from the Shapeways parts, since there is no way to specify build orientation.  You may have been fortunate up to now, but at some point you are going to receive parts rendered in an orientation that is not conducive to the fine detail required for N scale modeling.

I have no doubt your painting skills are stellar, and surely a one-of part could be rendered coincidentally in the best possible build orientation that keeps stepping issues to a minimum.  But I don't see how that would stay constant over a quantity of builds on the equipment Shapeways contracts out to (ProJet3000) or at the resolution they are using (UHD).

[mmyers05]

I clean them pretty much how I described on Trainboard: many washes in hot (scalding would probably be the most appropriate term) water with a touch of dishsoap in a cheap "ultrasonic jewelry cleaner." I'm sure that there are more effective ways of cleaning them, I've probably read descriptions of twenty different techniques by now, but since I like to avoid solvents if at all possible (just out of personal preference) and this has been working I have stuck with it.

As for the models that I have ordered: I have received about fifteen prints by now (derived from about eight different designs). Of those all but one, incidentally the very first one that I ordered, have come through at the quality shown or in several cases considerably better. That said, I completely agree that the quality is variable, however personally I am willing to risk loosing 1 out of 10 if it means that I don't need to scratch-build myself the many trains worth of cars and locomotives that I am going for. 

Thanks for complimenting my painting skills btw haha but unfortunately they are anything but "stellar." I just use a good old-fashioned brush; I definitely missed some spots too, but hey, it's a prototype...

As for orientation problems, all of the cars that I have received (gondolas and boxcars) have been printed either upright as uploaded or more commonly on their sides. Frankly this doesn't bother me too much as it has meant that the lost detail and roughness have generally been focused on the ends of the cars (which isn't particularly visible in a train anyway). For a steam locomotive, clearly it is more important that the piece be printed upright as this one was.   

As for the machines that Shapeways is using, I could be wrong, but I do not think that the majority of my models have been coming from the Netherlands.

[bbussey]

One issue with repeated washes in scalding hot water is that the melting point of EX2000 isn't far from that of the wax, so that might explain some of the smoothing effect you are achieving.  That's why the pieces sometimes arrive with thicker layers of wax in the more-detailed areas, because they don't want to crank the oven too high at the risk of distorting the model.

Shapeways sub-contacts all the ProJet HD3000 work to a firm in the Netherlands by the name of Heijcon, which is why they haven't been able to allow the consumer to choose the build orientation.  It appears that Shapeways has offices around the world however.  All the parts I've had rendered have been shipped from a Park Avenue address in Manhattan, even though they were rendered at Heijcon.

I've been working with the ProJet HD3000Plus (next level machine) that renders the EX2000 at twice the resolution, which works very well on areas with intricate detail and strong relief.  But I'm still tweaking here and there in regard to the large flat areas devoid of detail - the welded sides of a boxcar for example.  I'm still not totally satisfied with curves and angled surfaces, but it's getting close.