Ntrak specs, and the deliberate ignoring of them.

[Hiroe]

Unless the rules have changed bigtime thee Peco code 55 is accepted practice for NTRAK.The wider track spacing is to allow longer cars to be on the end curves on more than one track at a time.The three track race track was implemented because some moron thought he knew more about trainshow crowds than the folks running the layouts.

When we were running NTRAK at shows we would cause traffic jams in the aisles when we started switching maneuvers.You can use any code rail you want on your private trackage,but it has to be code 80 or atleast PECO code 55 where it joins the mainlines.

Well, yeah. All of that was understood as a given; but I'm ready to move beyond the standards of 35 years ago. No offense meant to anyone by that. My choice of Peco 55 for the concrete-tie track is forced by the limited selection of manufacturers offering track with concrete ties.

I'm really going to raise some eyebrows when people see that the 3-module 56" set is going to be a model of the PRR flyover at Holly/Hook/Edgemoor, and that it's the Red line that will fly up and over the Yellow and Blue, which will in turn shift forward one track each, so that the Red can drop back down in the Blue position.

[John]

Relaxing them seems to be the point of criticality for this project. Too far from them, and I can't drop a random module into a national show; and will make it increasingly more difficult to get anyone else to build them in cooperation with me. Too close, and I'm back where I was 10 years ago.

Build a couple of 1 foot transitions you can clamp on either end to get the spacing back to NTRAK ..

[seusscaboose]

Build a couple of 1 foot transitions you can clamp on either end to get the spacing back to NTRAK ..

Getting back isn't the problem, that is a necessity... the concern, as i understand it,  is wandering too far from spec on the 3 common lines will have undesired consequences with the local NTRAK orginzation as they ride the ties through his modules.

[lashedup]

Hiroe,

Do you live in an area where you could band together with a few other like-minded people and work on something new and different? That's how modutrak came about and we've never looked back.

-jamie

[seusscaboose]

Hiroe,

Do you live in an area where you could band together with a few other like-minded people and work on something new and different? That's how modutrak came about and we've never looked back.

-jamie

kinda/exactly what i was thinkin'...

[Hiroe]

Hiroe,

Do you live in an area where you could band together with a few other like-minded people and work on something new and different? That's how modutrak came about and we've never looked back.

-jamie

Oh, there are plenty of Ntrak clubs. I'm a member of two of them. That said, trying to get them to move forward on such a project doesn't sell well. Too many members see it as a conflict of compatibility with established standards to change even the slightest thing, so nothing gets accomplished. I do have one or two other individuals who are interested; and it may simply be easier to have them join EPTC (East Penn Traction Club), and publish the refined standards as being EPTC-compliant.

[Sokramiketes]

Oh, there are plenty of Ntrak clubs. I'm a member of two of them. That said, trying to get them to move forward on such a project doesn't sell well. Too many members see it as a conflict of compatibility with established standards to change even the slightest thing, so nothing gets accomplished. I do have one or two other individuals who are interested; and it may simply be easier to have them join EPTC (East Penn Traction Club), and publish the refined standards as being EPTC-compliant.

Modutrak started out with two people.  It's not easy to go head to head with a full club (been there with BraNch-trak vs. NW N-trak) but it you build a new style of layout, others will find you.   

[inkaneer]

Oh, there are plenty of Ntrak clubs. I'm a member of two of them. That said, trying to get them to move forward on such a project doesn't sell well. Too many members see it as a conflict of compatibility with established standards to change even the slightest thing, so nothing gets accomplished. I do have one or two other individuals who are interested; and it may simply be easier to have them join EPTC (East Penn Traction Club), and publish the refined standards as being EPTC-compliant.

I guess your idea of "accomplishment" is very different than theirs.  What you see as "moving forward" they see as an erosion of Ntrak standards.  I say start your own module design group and forget about incorporating any Ntrak standards.  That way you won't be saddled with all the attachments to something that is not compatible.   Lots of Ntrak clubs have spawned spinoff groups who didn't like one or more Ntrak standards.  Itis alot easier to form a new group than to change an existing one.  Our club had two such spinoffs on using Unitrack alone.   

Quote from: Catt on Today at 03:46:49 AM
"Unless the rules have changed bigtime thee Peco code 55 is accepted practice for NTRAK.The wider track spacing is to allow longer cars to be on the end curves on more than one track at a time.The three track race track was implemented because some moron thought he knew more about trainshow crowds than the folks running the layouts.

When we were running NTRAK at shows we would cause traffic jams in the aisles when we started switching maneuvers.You can use any code rail you want on your private trackage,but it has to be code 80 or atleast PECO code 55 where it joins the mainlines."

From what I have been told the earliest Ntrak design had only the two tracks.   The third one was quickly added as a branch line to accomodate some operations and also to allow more operators to run.  I recall in the early days there was a sign up sheet to run and I was lucky to run one hour each day of the show.  Also I can't recall the name of the club but there was an Ntrak club that kept the double track main line on their original modules.  I think the club was in Ohio but not sure.






Mod: fixed broken quote tag

[Ian MacMillan]

Modutrak started out with two people.  It's not easy to go head to head with a full club (been there with BraNch-trak vs. NW N-trak) but it you build a new style of layout, others will find you.   

Exactly... which is what I am trying to do in the Northeast, using Modutrak standards. Now that my layout is scheduled for its first show in April I can start showing that N can be more than round round NTrak.

[Hiroe]

I just did a google search for the modutrak standards, and one of the result pages is sharing malicious code. ( modutrak.serenityrv.net/    DO NOT CLICK.) Would one of you have a link to the standards themselves?

[Ian MacMillan]

They have not been published yet, but Mike I believe is working on them. Jamie or Mike can give you the specs tho.

Here are the basic standards,  5 foot long modules by 18".

[Zox]

It's not ModuTrak, but here's one example of a non-NTrak modular standard:

Smart-N Module Standard: http://marrsweb.org/smrtnstd.html
Smart-N Module Design Guide: http://marrsweb.org/nmodguide.html

We require Code 80 (or Peco "Code 55") because some of our members favor European equipment, but you still might find these documents to be useful/inspirational--or a good sleep inducer, depending on your reading habits.

[conrail98]

There's also the Free-moN group as well, http://free-mon.org/,

Phil

[C855B]

Unless the rules have changed bigtime ... Peco code 55 is accepted practice for NTRAK.

...

Yes it is... the specs say "Peco, Railcraft or Shinohara" on page 10-18 of the current "How To" book for Code 55, which sort of tells you how long ago that spec was written. The "recent changes" (2002) on page 10-14 acknowledges the then-new Atlas track and its incompatibility with pizza cutters, the sole issue. My take on this would be to use Micro Engineering's 55, which is OK with the older MTL wheels. I keep a few sticks of ME Code 70 around for module work, but it still requires Code 80 ends for the joiners. As far as Atlas C55 switches go, let 'em rumble.

(I'm in the middle of a wholesale changeover to Fox Valley wheelsets. Two members of one club I belong to have asked for my pizza cutter rejects. I told them that these were going in the trash, and, besides, I don't want to have the stigma of being an "enabler" for a bad habit.) 

As far as upsetting the club(s), as somebody said, "Just do it." If you have transition modules, you're fine, except I recommend 2' adapters rather than the 1' already suggested; at least two clubs I'm aware of have nothing other than 4' modules or married modules in 4' increments, so adjusting by a 2' amount would be unresolvable.

As far as getting the others in the club to go along, if it's anything like my main club, you have a core of really active members, a few train-runners, and a handful of longstanding members not quite in the "active" group whose modules are 15-20+ years old. It's the latter that are the resistance problem and also usually the ones insisting on pizza cutters. I guess I count myself lucky in that most of the "active" group are starting to push the envelope a little by adopting RPs like PowerPole connectors in their new or revised modules. I already "threatened" the club president that I just might surreptitiously change the connectors on at least the club-owned modules during a near-future operating session.

Even though I share the same "we can do better than this!" feelings about the warts of N-Trak, I can't warm up to the "new" standards such as Free-moN, Smart-N, or - frankly? - anybody else's "better idea" at this point. I know that where I live, with anything other than N-Trak I would be an army of one. You guys in the East with your population density might be able to get critical mass for something different, but for here, I would be pushing my compatibility luck even trying to get help adding oNeTrak in the mix.

[Hiroe]

They have not been published yet, but Mike I believe is working on them. Jamie or Mike can give you the specs tho.

Here are the basic standards,  5 foot long modules by 18".

Interesting. What's the reasoning behind building them in 5' lengths? Also, do the two tracks have any sort of color designation?

The MaRRS and FreemoN standards are an interesting read as well.

Yes it is... the specs say "Peco, Railcraft or Shinohara" on page 10-18 of the current "How To" book for Code 55, which sort of tells you how long ago that spec was written. The "recent changes" (2002) on page 10-14 acknowledges the then-new Atlas track and its incompatibility with pizza cutters, the sole issue. My take on this would be to use Micro Engineering's 55, which is OK with the older MTL wheels. I keep a few sticks of ME Code 70 around for module work, but it still requires Code 80 ends for the joiners. As far as Atlas C55 switches go, let 'em rumble.

This is also what I've been thinking. I already have a significant bundle of ME 55 (it was free), as well as a dozen or so mixed ME switches (also free).

As far as upsetting the club(s), as somebody said, "Just do it." If you have transition modules, you're fine, except I recommend 2' adapters rather than the 1' already suggested; at least two clubs I'm aware of have nothing other than 4' modules or married modules in 4' increments, so adjusting by a 2' amount would be unresolvable.

Actually, as things stand now, I already have a 2' module, along with "snap track" modules in 18", 15", 12", 9", and 6" (these help resolve the 3/4/5 corner issue when splitting up the 30* corner segments). However, building the Ntrak adapters as two-footers will let me put crossovers on them, so trains on my 4th (or 5th) track can get back to the three typically found on most Ntrak modules. And given that the book officially states that both Peco and ME (formerly Railcraft) c55 are acceptable, using the adapters to bring the spacing back to standard should put a quick end to any kvetching. (Therein lies the issue with taking some of the old-heads at their word that c55 is verboten on the mains. Should have looked it up myself.)

(I'm in the middle of a wholesale changeover to Fox Valley wheelsets. Two members of one club I belong to have asked for my pizza cutter rejects. I told them that these were going in the trash, and, besides, I don't want to have the stigma of being an "enabler" for a bad habit.) 

Hahah, I've done much the same.