ESM Shapeways products suspended until further notice

[bbussey]

Due to some procedural issues with the rendering process, ESM products through Shapeways are suspended until further notice.  Once the issues have been resolved, the ESM products will be made available.

The White Tower restaurant launch also will be delayed until the procedural issue is resolved.  Hopefully the delay will only be a few days.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I take it you can not order specific orientation?

[ljudice]

I can't speak for Bryan, but I've noticed a lot of problems with the site in the past week or so...

Clearly growth pains, but on the other hand they need to have a little more predictability and consistency...  IMHO...

- Lou

[bbussey]

I take it you can not order specific orientation?

Currently no.  But they are getting complaints from all quarters on this issue so they must debate how to handle it moving forward.  They know it's a critical issue, so I hope we have a resolution before the end of this month.

[DKS]

I must confess that there is high variability in the quality of their output. I've ordered multiples of the same parts, and found considerable inconsistencies, ranging from barely acceptable to totally worthless.

Some of this stem from the orientation issue Bryan has encountered. However, there are other problems that are related to the cleaning process, which they try to accelerate by heating the objects to melt the wax--which unfortunately is only a few degrees below the melting point of the FUD. I sometimes wish that we could order the products "raw" or uncleaned; I'd clean them myself using heptane, which dissolves the wax thoroughly but does not affect the FUD in any way.

One last issue is that of warping for parts of certain shape, and I have no clue how this might be addressed. It's bad enough that I've had to abandon plans of rendering masters in FUD and making molds of them for resin.

And then there's the problem of delivery times. I've waited as much as eight weeks for some parts to be delivered.

It all goes to show that, while there is unquestionably potential in the process, there's still a considerable amount of maturing necessary.

[Chris333]

Currently no.  But they are getting complaints from all quarters on this issue so they must debate how to handle it moving forward.  They know it's a critical issue, so I hope we have a resolution before the end of this month.

So soon there will be a $5 orientation fee 

[wcfn100]

I would think that there would be a way to make a single drawing with multiple buildings that would force SW to orient them whatever way you want.



Jason

[daniel_leavitt2000]

For resin casting masters, I wonder if it would just be easier to use Mark4Design instead? It might be more expensive, but we know how good the quality is.

Obviously this wouldn't work for prototype-to-consumer transactions, but for those of use looking for a place to output masters for resin castings (looking at your bus projects Bryan), this would seem the best solution.

[ljudice]

One reason for the variations from run to run could be that Shapeways itself has very limited production capacity - and outsources it to other firms. Whether all the FUD goes to one place or not, I have no idea. However - there is a good chance that various batches of products in some materials could be made in different places.

Clearly this could be done consistently every single time - but in a high growth business, perhaps it could vary.

The design turnaround time has been really discouraging to me - I've seen 8 weeks too - and I am not a very disciplined person - by the time 8 weeks rolls around I'm often on to some new thing.

- Lou

[ljudice]

For resin casting masters, I wonder if it would just be easier to use Mark4Design instead? It might be more expensive, but we know how good the quality is.

Obviously this wouldn't work for prototype-to-consumer transactions, but for those of use looking for a place to output masters for resin castings (looking at your bus projects Bryan), this would seem the best solution.

Good point - and I would add that if Mark is too busy, there are other firms that do Perfactory runs. The pricing is a little bit over Shapeways. I have not seriously looked into them though.

[bbussey]

For resin casting masters, I wonder if it would just be easier to use Mark4Design instead? It might be more expensive, but we know how good the quality is.
Obviously this wouldn't work for prototype-to-consumer transactions, but for those of use looking for a place to output masters for resin castings (looking at your bus projects Bryan), this would seem the best solution.

Good point - and I would add that if Mark is too busy, there are other firms that do Perfactory runs. The pricing is a little bit over Shapeways. I have not seriously looked into them though.

The price is more than a little bit higher.  It is an option for masters that are designed to be used for resin castings, but it isn't an option for direct-purchase by consumers.  And it's much more difficult to remove the support structure, which is the same material as the item itself.  There are issues unique to each process that have to be addressed.  This EL-C shell, for example, still has stepping issues on the slopes as well as distortion issues in the cab area and soft-relief issues in other areas.

I would think that there would be a way to make a single drawing with multiple buildings that would force SW to orient them whatever way you want.

Yes, if the product was not going directly to consumers on a make-to-order basis.   I don't want to have 30 White Towers sitting here collecting dust.  The model is an opportunity to take advantage of the Shapeways process and provide a unique item to those who wish to acquire it without having to worry about either meeting the usual production minimums or having to charge a premium price.  So hopefully they will arrive at a solution that everyone can live with.

For some potential Sovereign Modeler projects, using the total machine footprint already has been factored in.  But getting the single pilot models from Shapeways the way it needs to be rendered (to see if the project is viable or not) is proving to be an arduous task at best.  The Shapeways one-million triangle limitation isn't helpful either, especially when trying to fill the entire footprint with multiple iterations.

[wcfn100]

Ah, fair enough.  Maybe you can do something nefarious with the building like add little arms that extend out that the user would then cut off. 

Hopefully this will get resolved.  I have a couple drawings I want to get priced but I'm waiting to see if this really ends up being a viable option.


Jason

[ljudice]

Bryan - interesting....

The Shapeways model is a really nice one for someone like me doing a couple of things in my spare time - with no infrastructure at all...  But even so, I hate the thought of someone ordering something and it comes back with a problem - or takes months to be delivered.

But I am sure it will get resolved one way or another.

-  Lou

[Sokramiketes]

What a cluster.

I've only held one FUD part in hand, but I wasn't impressed.  The shrinkage factor is large. 

Perfactory is impressive when the machine is properly set up for finest resolution.  Mark4 was a pioneer, but is busy with other stuff.  Use Best-Cast instead.  http://www.best-cast.com 

Best-Cast will also go from Perfactory to Brass.  This is excellent for detail parts.  Just be sure to put your own sprues on the drawing... otherwise B-C will put their own on, too large, and in bad spots.  But they are learning the needs of our industry.  DKS, you should really check them out so you can move forward on some of your already designed projects. 

And with the White Tower, seems like it could be cast in resin aside from some window/door detail?  It could be done in Perfactory, then cast by Dick Billings, with some photo etched windows... but that's more involved and requires inventory again Bryan. 

Too bad about Shapeways, but the FUD limitations are just piling up.  Back to the tried-and-true. 

[ljudice]

Mike - the real killer for me is the 8 week cycle time - it defeats the purpose of rapid turnaround.

- Lou