N Scale Convention

[Dave Schneider]

Daniel,

You must have missed the part of the Atlas thread where it was stated that the builder of the fire scene is a retired firefighter Chief. So I am guessing he knows all about the issues to which you refer. I understand that you have strong feelings about fire scenes, and a discussion of accurate modeling of such scenes would be a very interesting topic. The idea of a training facility is a good one, and here in Anchorage the AFD has some railcars that they use for practice.

Best wishes, Dave

[sirenwerks]

Don't forget Ilchester with its tunnel and bridge combo.  And, if you want to do it up nicely, an OML module could show sections of the former right-of-way and even some of the original stone stringers that are still in place in a few spots.

There are so many sweet spots on the line. Like the old coal tower ruins further down from Ilchester tunnel/bridge's west end and Ellicott City, Sykesville (don't forget the buttery factory & the Springfield Dinkey), Henryton Hospital, Ijamsville, the remains of Mt. Airy loop and the Planes, Alpha Portland Cement, Doubs Rd., the Monacacy R. crossing & PoR, so many abandoned sections & realignments (like around Ilchester Hill & the old Bush Creek spur), and a lot of cool stone bridges and culverts (the Twin Arch bridge @ MP 38.4 & what I refer to as the hobbit culvert @ MP 33.3)... I guess the biggest question would be to place the line in double track time with two-tone blue or the year(s) of the cat and the primary color scheme? There's also the problem of, given the steep hillage and river crossings moving the track from one bank to the other, how to keep the trains in view of the of operators and audience.

@Daniel - while personal safety certainly is an issue, besides the 'wow' factor for the kidees, Baltimore's known for insurance fires claiming the city's significant industrial heritage and clearing the way for 'development' (often being a paved parking lot that sits empty for decades). So there is a tongue in cheek sensitivity for locals that non-Baltimorons may not appreciate, especially those closest to the danger side of the factor.

[3DTrains]

As I said before. Micro Machines suck just because there are some modelers, and I use the term loosly, who think they are accurate enough to use. Ugh!

Daniel,

Accuracy is a moving target - what may be inaccurate for you is perfectly accurate for the person modeling the scene. Take for instance the module builder's use of Micro Machines - as you stated, in your mind they're toy-like, but the creator might have viewed the scene differently, and decided counting rivets wasn't his cup-o-tea. Now on to the image of your fire fighting rig - accurate for you, but it might not meet someone else's criteria for "accuracy" (door lines are several scale inches wide, there are silver dots in place of handles, the paint isn't smooth, and there's no glass on the windows, etc.).

As a professional modeler, I believe it's best to encourage all to do better, but not at the expense of hurt feelings - whether intended or not. If the modeling community were to hold everyone to an impossible high standard of accuracy, then there would be perhaps a handful of actual modelers - all others would run in fear of ridicule for their (perceived) feeble attempts at creating anything for themselves or others to enjoy, learn from, and marvel at.

Personally, I find your fire rig model magnificent.

Cheers!
Marc

[daniel_leavitt2000]

The paint has me a bit irritated. It seems no matter what I do, I just can't get a smooth finish latly.

[wm3798]

Keeping the track in full view wouldn't be a problem.  I've found that a little "peek a boo" along the main line can be an attention getter.  IIRC, Bernie's C&O set did a pretty good job of that.

Re: the fire scene, let it go.  Yes, it's something you're close to, and yes, it's something you would do differently.  But what you're saying (apart from the danger to life and limb) would be akin to Puddington cutting me off at the knees because my paper mill doesn't look like a paper mill.  Like any model railroad endeavor, one starts with X amount of space, and has X amount of goals that one wishes to shoe-horn into that space.  The trucks are too close to the building because to scale it out properly might have required a module that wouldn't fit in the guy's minivan.  I'm sure it wasn't out of some cruel hatred or wanton disregard for the skill and bravery of firefighters.

Now back to the Old Main Line...  Remember back when Ed hatched the scheme to build the Horseshoe Curve on N trak standards?  As iconic as that would be, the OML presents some much more interesting possibilities.  First, the overall distance is shorter, the scenery is more "intimate" (i.e. easier to represent on relatively small modules) and it fits very nicely into the OneTrak scheme of things, wherein single or double track can be done as a standard, curves and grades are a possibility (although grades would be less necessary since the terrain can be more effectively manipulated), and of course, my pet peeve, better looking track can be used.

If this is a project anyone is interested in pursuing, either within or without Bantrak, I'll throw my hat in.

Lee

[3DTrains]

Hi Daniel,

What is the material of the model (plastic, resin, metal, etc.)? You might try using automotive lacquer - the same used in small touch-up bottles, but it would need to be thinned and sprayed using an airbrush (test on a separate piece to ensure the material isn't destroyed). Then after a day or two (provided you don't get orange peel or other anomalies), polish with Pearl Drops or regular toothpaste - not the gel type - until you get the results you're after. Only afterward would you detail the trim and other areas.

Cheers!
Marc

[delamaize]

I was the original that guy I couldn't believe my off hand comment got that much of a reaction over at Atlas. I posted there because I saw it there first (again, I seem to avoid pink sticky threads).

Anyway, I just don't see the humor or whimsy in something that dangerous. I have had many fire calls. Its not a pleasant experience to be on the phone with someone trapped in a fire. Waiting for the first units to get on scene makes me sick to my stomach.

The module is all wrong. And not a little wrong. Anyone with any sense whatsoever would notice the wall of the fully involved structure would colapse on the fire trucks. Seriously, didn't he look at ANY prototype pictures?

As I said before. Micro Machines suck just because there are some modelers, and I use the term loosly, who think they are accurate enough to use. Ugh!

What really made my loose my sh*t was seeing the water tender parked NEXT to the fire boat. Is this guy daft?

People die in these thinks. Its not cool. Its not whimsical. Its not thoughtfull or cute. Treat it with some damn respect.

Mike, its not finished, but I think it looks OK:

Hey Dan, I was a firefighter from 1996 untill 2009, Voulenteer the entire time period, from 2001 to 2006 I was a fire fighter for the army, and 2007 I was a temp. Firefighter for McChord AFB. I know all about it. I have always said, regardless of the scene being modeled, with Techincal scenes you should be accurate as possible, if you are doing a emergency scene, you should do the research and model it right, if you are modeling a car shop, do the research and model it as corect as possible, even something like a baseball field should be modeled accuratly. I understand that space restraints can effect how accurate you can be, But this one is just too.....I dunno. He knew his restraint on size. It would have been better to model a smaller building accuratly, then this. If this guy is a retired cheif, and this is accurate to how he would have ran a fire scene. I wouldn't ever wanted to work for him, this kind of cluster **** would have got people killed. I only mad it as far as driver before having to call it quits (wife decided to stay in the army.) and even I know that this is wrong.  Like I said before, I could go one for a whole page or two about how this is totally wrong, But, Unless someone wants me to, I will leave it alone.

Also, I like your stick there, is it totally scratchbuilt? I am modeling 1945ish-1955ish so I got some building to do for trucks. I have not even started on them yet. The micro machine truck I am using is this one:

I know the dimentions are totally off, but I already had it, so I figured I would at least take a look at it. I think it is actually going to be way too small overall. But this project is beyond the back burner for a really long time. Reality, I will probally have to scratch build everything if I want it to look remotely accurate.

[sirenwerks]

Now back to the Old Main Line...  Remember back when Ed hatched the scheme to build the Horseshoe Curve on N trak standards?  As iconic as that would be, the OML presents some much more interesting possibilities.  First, the overall distance is shorter, the scenery is more "intimate" (i.e. easier to represent on relatively small modules) and it fits very nicely into the OneTrak scheme of things, wherein single or double track can be done as a standard, curves and grades are a possibility (although grades would be less necessary since the terrain can be more effectively manipulated), and of course, my pet peeve, better looking track can be used.

If this is a project anyone is interested in pursuing, either within or without Bantrak, I'll throw my hat in.

Lee

I'd be interested (once I figure out if I'm staying in the area). I do like the concept, especially if it's set when the stripe variations and sunbursts were prominent (solid blue makes me sad and primary colors angry), with double track and lineside industries still in place, and targeted to MMUT aesthetic standards. I like the idea of featuring a switching-intensive industrial Baltimore Terminal Line (though there'd have to be some sort of yard) and Brunswick with a (relatively) full-size yard and engine facility; and of (eventually) the two DC branches (@ Relay and PoR) forming a connecting return loop, rather than a simple balloon loop at each end.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

There are only two issues with the OML:
1. There's no online industries any more, that I know of.
2. There's very little traffic on it.

It's sure pretty, but I'd recommend it for railfans, because you're not going to see many trains on it.

[delamaize]

It's sure pretty, but I'd recommend it for railfans, because you're not going to see many trains on it.

[sirenwerks]

There are only two issues with the OML:
1. There's no online industries any more, that I know of.
2. There's very little traffic on it.

It's sure pretty, but I'd recommend it for railfans, because you're not going to see many trains on it.

That's why you set the project back during a time when there were running industries - like the pulp plant in Ilchester, Washington flour mill in EC (maybe even the furniture factory in Oella); C.R. Daniels fabric factory in Daniels; the feed outlet, butter factory, and lumber yard in Sykesville; Frederick had numerous industries; etc. - and trains ran (passenger trains!). Back when locomotives and their paint schemes actually looked good, not today or even 40 years ago.

[Bob Bufkin]

Did the B&O and PRR have a connection in Frederick back in the day?

[davefoxx]

Um.  I'm confused.  If we're talking about designing modules for a oNeTrak layout to join with a BANTRAK Ntrak layout, does it really matter if there are enough industries on the OML to justify operations?  Wouldn't the layout be just for running anyway (like Ntrak)?  For that matter, would it really be 100% necessary to stick to a specific era and model the line as accurately as possible?  No offense intended to the Ntrak guys, but concerns for anachronisms on a oNeTrak layout that is connected to an Ntrak layout seems out of place to me.

DFF

[sirenwerks]

I wouldn't be partial to a BANtrak union. What's the benefit?

The idea of sticking to a time period definitely ties everything together in terms of aesthetics. Take a look at the Mini-Mod-U-Trak modules. The place and 50s-60s time period restrictions on locos, rolling stock, structures, and details ties it all together and is a reflection on the high quality of modeling. Otherwise, might as well stick with the code 80 three track Mothra mish mash.

[John]

I wouldn't be partial to a BANtrak union. What's the benefit?

well,  it is the BANTRAK 1T division I am talking about ..