The Transcontinental PRR

[eric220]

Ooooh! A perfect scene for Winter Park, CO!

Winter Park?!?!?!? This ain't no Rio Grande!

More specifically this is Loveland Pass, not Corona Pass.  My PRR built the route that the real Union Pacific threatened to build from Georgetown over Loveland Pass to Dillon.  This route would have passed right past the base of Keystone Ski Resort (and come on, with a name like "Keystone", I think Max Dercum could have convinced the PRR to fund development of the resort).  It would have also passed within a mile of the base of Arapahoe Basin and Loveland Basin, and with ownership of the Colorado Southern, it would have had a branch line to Breckenridge.  I like my options for a Ski Train!

[Dave V]

Similar route then to the proposed narrow-gauge Denver, South Park & Pacific and later Denver, Leadville, & Gunnison.  They were planning to connect the end of track of the Colorado Central (later Colorado and Southern) just beyond Silver Plume with Dillion via Loveland Pass and Keystone.

[3DTrains]

Winter Park?!?!?!? This ain't no Rio Grande!

Details, details, details. 

[eric220]

Similar route then to the proposed narrow-gauge Denver, South Park & Pacific and later Denver, Leadville, & Gunnison.  They were planning to connect the end of track of the Colorado Central (later Colorado and Southern) just beyond Silver Plume with Dillion via Loveland Pass and Keystone.

Indeed.  The line from Georgetown to Silver Plume on the CC, and the line from Dickey (Dillon) to Keystone on the DL&G were both built with UP money while the UP had control of both lines.  It was done as a threat to compete with a third line (I forget who at the moment) that the UP was trying to pressure.  They never really intended to complete the line, they only wanted to build enough of it to convince the third party that they were serious.  All of that track (and ROW) passed to the Colorado Southern, which my PRR later bought.  When they needed a route over the Rockies, having those ROW's coming within a few miles of each other was the deciding factor to use the route over Loveland.  Close enough logic to pass the railroad through my favorite ski resort.   

[eric220]

I've been playing around with some ideas for Keystone and Loveland Pass. Turns out that adding 6 inches to the tangent tracks across the bridge to fit a pair of #10's just fouled things up too much. It especially didn't make much sense once I realized that there was enough space for a full crossover on the tangent before.  I also messed around with the layout of Keystone, as well as the placement of the next set of crossovers east of Keystone. Here's what I came up with:

[davefoxx]

I like the plan as drawn in your last post, because I prefer no turnouts on the bridge.  Besides, how would you install Tortoises on turnouts on a bridge?  Use the switch machine as a pier?!   

DFF

[wm3798]

Jerry Britton had Tortoises under his Sherman Creek Bridge.  Since it was all in a shelf layout section, he mounted the tortoises below the river, and used a clever series of piano wire linkages to operate the turnouts from behind the bridge.



Naturally, I didn't take a picture of the clever part...

Lee

[eric220]

Actually, my solution was going to be much simpler than that.  #10's are 8 inches long, so two back to back are 16 inches long.  The Walthers double track bridge is 10 inches long.  I was going to center the bridge between the turnouts such that the throw bars were off each end of the bridge over the plywood roadbed.

[Dave V]

Actually, my solution was going to be much simpler than that.  #10's are 8 inches long, so two back to back are 16 inches long.  The Walthers double track bridge is 10 inches long.  I was going to center the bridge between the turnouts such that the throw bars were off each end of the bridge over the plywood roadbed.

Although Pennsy used a lot of heavy steel infrastructure in specific places, I still think for a river or creek crossing, a PRR stone arch bridge is most appropriate.

[eric220]

Although Pennsy used a lot of heavy steel infrastructure in specific places, I still think for a river or creek crossing, a PRR stone arch bridge is most appropriate.

I would agree, except that this scene is set the high mountains of Colorado.  Most of the bridges that I've seen in this area are steel.  These are potentially very deep chasms with very steep slopes that these bridges have to cross, so stone arches might not be the best solution.

If you've got examples of stone bridges in the steep canyons of Colorado that I'm overlooking, I'm certainly willing to rethink this decision.

[Dave V]

No, I don't.  For large chasms such as on the A&S low grade, the Schuylkill branch, and on the P&T low grade line near Thorndale, Pennsy used deck trusses rather than through trusses, and heavy stone piers.  I get that this is Colorado and not Pennsylvania,  but diverging from Standard Practice of the Standard Railroad of the World will likely only confuse matters a bit further.   Just sayin'...

[wm3798]

If your back story has the PRR achieving its transcontinental route via mergers and acquisitions, the infrastructure would be whatever the original owner specified.  If the theory is that the PRR built the line all the way through in 18 diggity doo, then it would be PRR standard practice.  I think the former makes more sense, and therefore gives Eric some latitude in the types of bridges installed in Colorado...

Lee

[Dave V]

Irrespective of the original owner, I think a through truss over a deep chasm would look strange.  Most times if clearance below the track isn't an issue, a railroad would build some sort of deck versus through structure, since a through structure offers less clearance above rail and potentially requires more materials.  Although there are probably prototype exceptions, most of the time when I see a through truss or girder over a deep ravine, it's on a model railroad.

[davefoxx]

I agree with Lee that if the transcontinental railroad is supposed to be created by mergers and acqusitions, then the infrastructure should be the former road's construction.  Heh, Eric could put in a bridge with emblems from the old railroad still showing, establishing that alternate history.  Bye, bye, UP?!    What roads have fallen, if any, in your version of history, Eric?

That said, I agree with Dave V. regarding the bridge superstructure.  My understanding is that the railroad generally built deck bridges when clearance underneath was not an issue.  Look at the Susquehanna River Bridge,  for example.  The only "through" portion is the now-nonfunctional swing section over the boating channel.

One advantage of a deck bridge over a through bridge is less damage, if a derailment occurs on the bridge structure.  Case in point, there was an old truss bridge (road bridge; not railroad) in North East, Maryland that was wiped out entirely when a drunk driver in a pick-up truck tried to drive up the end girder.  Put the whole thing in the creek.

DFF

[eric220]

Interesting points...  More mulling is required.  For the moment, it looks like I should consider just cookie-cuttering right through the area and coming back later to install the bridges.

Brief history lesson.  From 1905 to 1915, PRR transcontinental trains were routed over the Colorado Midland, of which the subsidiary Colorado Southern owned 50%.  The other 50% was owned by the Rio Grande.  They way my history unfolds, the Rio Grand became a fierce competitor of the PRR, kind of the NYC of the west.  In 1915, the Rio Grande management convinced the state legislature to force the Colorado Southern to give up its stake in the Colorado Midland.  Once it had full control of the route, the Rio Grand rescinded the PRR's trackage rights.  With their transcontinental link suddenly severed, the PRR was forced to build their own route over the continental divide.  Given that they needed it yesterday, they used the right of way that they already owned up clear creek, over Loveland Pass, and down to Dickey (Dillon).  They also incorporated the Colorado Junction Railroad to drill the tunnel under the divide, as well as build new track along a previously surveyed route from Glenwood Springs, up the Grand River to the Blue River to the Snake River to a connection with the existing ROW at Dickey.

Short answer: The entire line from Golden, over the Rockies, all the way to Glenwood Springs was original PRR construction, although it was very rapidly constructed.