Oh no! I'm Having THOSE Kinds of Thoughts Again!

[conrail98]

Dave, check out Norm Wolf's Doswell layout site, http://trainfanatic.blogspot.com/. He's got a roundy/roundy with operations for all the things your are mentioning you'd want to do/like to do. It's in HO, but could be interpreted into a decent shelf layout or maybe a few of the small/bi-fold doors put together. Also, I think Bernie did a plan in MRP  2000 on the Piedmont Subdivision with Doswell in one corner of a bedroom shelf layout (12x12). It was a bedroom layout. I do think Lee's got some good suggestions so far,

Phil

[davefoxx]

Thanks for that link, Phil.  That really should help provide some inspiration and ideas.

I knew about Bernie's C&O Piedmont Sub plan and always seem to refer back to it.  He did what I think may have to do for now: Build the C&O as the working road and the RF&P as the interchange.

DFF

[Dave V]

Dave, would it help if you did a generic VA layout like your last but then had interchangeable structures, some RF&P, some C&O?  You could use common foundations and swap them out when you wanted your layout to be one or the other (or even SBD).

My father has talked about doing that for a layout that could be Reading, EL, or NYO&W depending on how he feels...  He's been building structures for multiple railroads with similar footprints.

[davefoxx]

Dave V.,

Yes, I have considered that, and the more I think about it, the more I realize that I will never build a large room-sized layout.  I work too slow and will have young children that are going to take much of my attention for years.  So, if I build the Virginia Central 2.0 on a HCD, I think I want to go double track this time, which means that the C&O interchange at Doswell could not be modeled as described in previous posts.  If you had to do it over again, would you stay with the double track loop on the HCD?  It does seem to work well on your layout where there are the scenic breaks.  Between you and me, I really want to model an operating RF&P mainline, no matter how small (i.e., double track loop), because I really want to be able to run intermodals, the Juice Train, and passenger trains.  The C&O's Piedmont Sub didn't see that kind of traffic in the 1980s, and I've got all of this RF&P, SBD, and SCL equipment that I want to be able to run.  I just need to figure out what two LDEs that I would model on each side of the layout.  The obvious is Doswell on one side with an interchange of coal hoppers from the C&O to run to the Possum Point power plant (might be able to figure out a loads-in/empties out operation through a scenic divider) on the other side, which has a nice river crossing that would, unfortunately, require significant selective compression.

I guess that the disadvantage of a double track loop is that I might be setting myself up for another layout doomed to the trash dumpster one day, because the concessions accepted probably wouldn't incorporate well into a larger layout.  Lee's right, the RF&P is very linear.  So, I need to pick one or the other: build with the plan for expansion or cram in what I need now.  Again, I don't foresee me building a room-sized layout.   I guess that if one were to think about it, though, a 36" door doesn't really fit all that well into a shelf layout anyway.  And, it is possible to recycle much of the layout.  You did this when you built the Juniata Division.  So, maybe I do just need to try to design a layout that will fit what I want within the confines of a HCD, with allowance for a 12" HCD for staging.  Lee's idea to put a wye at one end to allow trains to access the yard from both ends hasn't slipped my mind.  If there's one thing that I learned from the Virginia Central 1.0, it's that the 12" HCD for the yard not only saves space on the 36" door by not trying to cram so much in, but it adds tremendously to the ops possibilities.  I don't have to explain that to you, though, as I know Enola did the same for you on the attached HCD. 

Back to the drawing board!
DFF

[Dave V]

I guess that the disadvantage of a double track loop is that I might be setting myself up for another layout doomed to the trash dumpster one day, because the concessions accepted probably wouldn't incorporate well into a larger layout.

DFF

Maybe...  But maybe not.  Think about the thought exercise we went through with the Juniata Division...  You may be able to design it such that you will only have to do minor trackage changes to absorb it into a larger layout.

[davefoxx]

Well, the RF&P is much better suited for a shelf layout, so a design on a door probably won't transition well to a future shelf layout.  But, again, I don't think I'll concern myself with that too much, because a HCD layout is really much more manageable for me.  And, who knows, when I hit Powerball someday,  I won't lose too much sleep about starting over and scrapping yet another layout.  Honestly, I would be very happy, if I can get a good five to ten years out of this layout as you have.

DFF

[Bob Bufkin]

If I was doing the RF&P, I would want to do the North End thru Alexandria, Va. during the early Amtrak era.  That way you could also do the Southern trains that still ran at that time plus all those neat high hoods the Southern had.  Guess I spent too much time trackside during those days but damn were there some great trains.

[davefoxx]

Bob,

I hear you, and I have always envied the time you were able to spend trackside in Alexandria.  Yes, the Southern (and the C&O by trackage rights) came into Potomac Yard next to the RF&P and those roads interchanged with the PRR, B&O, and even D&H.  That said, it's cool, but I'll never get any of that on a HCD.  Also, I spent my college years railfanning the other end near Richmond, so I'll likely stick to somewhere in the southern half of the RF&P.

DFF

[AlkemScaleModels]

Dave, check out Norm Wolf's Doswell layout site, http://trainfanatic.blogspot.com/. He's got a roundy/roundy with operations for all the things your are mentioning you'd want to do/like to do. It's in HO, but could be interpreted into a decent shelf layout or maybe a few of the small/bi-fold doors put together. Also, I think Bernie did a plan in MRP  2000 on the Piedmont Subdivision with Doswell in one corner of a bedroom shelf layout (12x12). It was a bedroom layout. I do think Lee's got some good suggestions so far,

Phil

Norm's layout was loosely based on my C&O Piedmont design, but Bob Sprague reworked it for him to focus on the RF&P. It looks good on paper, but in person has too much track for my taste. The problem he has is that there is insufficient room to scenically separate the tracks in the foreground from the staging tracks in back. However, in N scale Norm's plan would work much better in the same foot print as you'd have more room to hide the back tracks etc.

BTW if you need to model HN tower, I did the drawings to modify my A cabin kit to be HN cabin. I have it done in HO, but could do it in N if there was a demand for it.

Bernard Kempinski

[davefoxx]

Norm's layout was loosely based on my C&O Piedmont design, but Bob Sprague reworked it for him to focus on the RF&P. It looks good on paper, but in person has too much track for my taste. The problem he has is that there is insufficient room to scenically separate the tracks in the foreground from the staging tracks in back. However, in N scale Norm's plan would work much better in the same foot print as you'd have more room to hide the back tracks etc.

Hi Bernie!

I agree.  If done in N scale, his plan would have spread things out little, not to mention add a little mileage to the mainline runs.  I'm a fan of less clutter.  In other words, less is often more.

BTW if you need to model HN tower, I did the drawings to modify my A cabin kit to be HN cabin. I have it done in HO, but could do it in N if there was a demand for it.

I'd definitely be interested.  Would it help, if I took your proposal to the RF&P Historical Society to see if they would be interested in adding an N scale kit of HN Tower to the Company Store (if you haven't already considered and/or done this)?

Thanks,
Dave

P.S. I saw your oNetrak modules on eBay.  If only I had enough room and cash. 

[AlkemScaleModels]

I gave a talk to the RFPHS last March. I mentioned the HO scale HN tower, but didn't get any interest. It probably would generate more interest if I brought a complete model or even unassembled kits. I haven't done the N Scale one yet.

The oNeTRAK modules are generating some interest, with a couple bids so far. I'm glad they will find a new home instead of being parted out and the wood/scenery going to the dump.

[wm3798]

I was thinking of buying the C&O modules with the idea of tearing up the track and making the right of way a hiking trail...

[Philip H]

I was thinking of buying the C&O modules with the idea of tearing up the track and making the right of way a hiking trail...

 

[AlkemScaleModels]

I was thinking of buying the C&O modules with the idea of tearing up the track and making the right of way a hiking trail...

The bidding is still open, so you can get your shot. But that would not be prototypical. You must be thinking of the WM, as the C&O Mtn Sub is still an active line, nearly as scenic and wonderful as ever. I say nearly because they have daylighted some of the tunnels and took out many of the cool C&O structures. But steel flanges still squeal on steel rails on Afton Mtn.

[John]

I bid it up to 200 .. then the budget window closed