Oh no! I'm Having THOSE Kinds of Thoughts Again!

[DKS]

I'm not saying that I'm clever, but when you lifted off the top of your Z scale layout at Timonium to display the loops underneath, let's just say that image went straight into my mental bank and was part of the inspiration for the loop on this layout.

I had a feeling that's where the idea came from. And I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible to pull off. It's just that, based on experience, they're really hard to do. I think the loop on the Aberdeen side could be hidden perhaps by a couple of large industrial buildings, while the loop on the other side could duck under a sloping hillside--that's why I kept it tight, so that you didn't need to resort to a string of retaining walls, like I did. Your call, of course. One way to see if it's feasible is to do a full-sized cardboard mock-up.

[davefoxx]

I was stationed at Fort Bragg for a while .. the countryside is quite hilly .. not Western Maryland like, but similar to where I live now ..

Lee,

John's right.  There are quite a few significant hills there in the sandhills.  The railroad's profile is a roller coaster with an eastbound ruling grade of 3.5% out of Aberdeen!

I like the loop but recognize the distinct disadvantages of it on this size layout.  Hiding it would not be a problem.  There's lots of hills and pine trees down there.  I thought that it would be nice to add some mainline length so that a train isn't so apparently chasing its tail.  It also gave me a place to add the lead to the future shelf layout without it appearing to switch right off of Raeford.  But, I think it would be better suited to a larger layout.  As I lay out the track plan once I start construction of the table, I'll give a quick attempt to lay out the loop to make the final decision.  If anything, just to confirm the practicality and avoid the what-ifs.  But, I think it's realistic to presume that it won't work very well.  We'll see.  

DFF

[davefoxx]

I had a feeling that's where the idea came from. And I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible to pull off. It's just that, based on experience, they're really hard to do. I think the loop on the Aberdeen side could be hidden perhaps by a couple of large industrial buildings, while the loop on the other side could duck under a sloping hillside--that's why I kept it tight, so that you didn't need to resort to a string of retaining walls, like I did. Your call, of course. One way to see if it's feasible is to do a full-sized cardboard mock-up.

Good idea, but I may just mock it up in full size to avoid cheating.  Once I build the benchwork, I'm working from a blank canvas of a large flat expanse of foam.  Your idea to hide the loop is exactly what I had in mind.  I also added the width to the layout at the end and side with the hopes that the loop would not infringe on Aberdeen.  Again, I just won't know until I lay it out in full size.  The nice thing is that my 2' x 4' layout has got me convinced that I have nothing to fear about a 10" radius loop.

Whether the loop ultimately works or fails, I was just trying to do something a little different than the standard hollow-core door layout.  Thanks for your input, everyone!

Dave

[extra7000south]

It's funny, but I almost posted a "this is what I'd do" version last night, and it wouldn't have the helix. I was torn about it because I thought some clever boy would point out that I have two of them on my layout. But it's precisely because I have them that I'd advise against it. Disguising it will be a major challenge and may never look right, construction will be a PITA, and the grades will probably be way worse than you were anticipating.

I like this one better too.   
I'm not a helix fan and on a small layout with short trains the run shouldn't be much different.

[sirenwerks]

I'm torn, not that my POV counts. I like the gain in elevation the loop gives. That being said, a loop works better in a small space in Z than it does in N. The second issue is how you can hide the skyboard entry/exit and how steep any scenery changes will have to be in such a narrow space. With all that trackwork, the best transition through the skyboard would be a straight-up vertical industry to mask the hole, but that's assuming you want to mask the hole, and I just don't know if the A&R had industries that could accommodate that slight of hand.

Bryan

[davefoxx]

I'm torn, not that my POV counts. I like the gain in elevation the loop gives. That being said, a loop works better in a small space in Z than it does in N. The second issue is how you can hide the skyboard entry/exit and how steep any scenery changes will have to be in such a narrow space. With all that trackwork, the best transition through the skyboard would be a straight-up vertical industry to mask the hole, but that's assuming you want to mask the hole, and I just don't know if the A&R had industries that could accommodate that slight of hand.

Bryan,

Your point of view, as well as other asshats, is welcomed.  I like the elevation change, too, but I have a suspicion that it's not going to work so well in my limited space.  I will try to lay it out once I get the basic table built, just to make sure whether it works or not.  Note that the loop would be hidden, so there would not be any abrupt scenery changes.  Just a basic low-profiled hill on top of the loop.

As for the skyboard, honesty, I'm not a fan of skyboards that run down the length of the layout, because it's difficult to disguise the openings.  I only plan to use one on this layout, because the layout will reside in an unfinished basement.  The background will not be suitable for model photography.  I may decide to just make a portable backdrop for photography purposes and forgo the layout's skyboard.  If I do install a backdrop on the layout, in my case, I think I could disguise the track ducking into the loop with tall Southern yellow pines on the Raeford side and hide the skyboard hole with a highway overpass on the Aberdeen side.  If I build the loop, I will construct it so that it does not pass through the backdrop.

DFF

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Make the portable one and eschew it here.

Also, remember, those pines are awfully top heavy, and don't hide as much "down low" as you'd think. This is one of the reasons I've never built anything FEC in N, and why I really admire those who have.

[davefoxx]

Make the portable one and eschew it here.

Also, remember, those pines are awfully top heavy, and don't hide as much "down low" as you'd think. This is one of the reasons I've never built anything FEC in N, and why I really admire those who have.

The portable one it is then.  With all of the pine trees in this area of NC, I don't really need a break in the scenery to hide one side from the other.  I had a small ridge on the Virginia Central and it did a fine job of forming a scenic divide.  The key is building the layout taller.

You know, I remember an article in one of the magazines, perhaps, Great Model Railroad, that had a layout set in the South.  I'll dig out that article the next time I'm over at my other house and see how that guy did modeled pine trees and hid the backdrop.  If I remember correctly, the shelf was not very deep, but it was very effective.

By the way, since I mentioned building the layout taller, I do not plan on using folding table legs on this layout.  While neat and tidy, they are not stable.  My last layout was pushed against the wall on one end, which kept it reasonably stable, but, unfortunately, this layout cannot do that.  As I'm sure Dave Vollmer will attest, those folding legs allow the layout to rock, if bumped.  I'm planning on building four legs with cross bracing that the layout will sit on and be easily removed by pulling just a few screws.

[davefoxx]

By perusing photos taken in Aberdeen, NC on rrpicturearchives.net, I found these interesting photos:

A great broadside shot of A&R #300.  Check out the fuel tank, which is fit only for a short line!
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=708060

This picture has a few elements that I plan to have on my HCD layout.  A sharp curve, a small bridge, and... a passenger train?!
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1561515

These shots show who's using the former original NS wye in Aberdeen in the 1980s, a road I'm not familiar with:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1887653
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=86785

...and since the 1990s (Aberdeen has seen some classy motive power in its time):
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=86443
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=86442

For Ed.  Does this shot in downtown Aberdeen surprise you?  Hint: That's NOT the A&R.  ;D
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=49474

And, finally, this one is for Lee and looks more like Aberdeen, Maryland than Aberdeen, North Carolina:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1927818

[wm3798]

I recommend finishing the basement first.

[davefoxx]

I recommend finishing the basement first.

Not in this house!  Our plans are to somehow get rid of my townhome, which still hasn't sold, and then sell this townhouse.  I'm putting as little into both places as I can.  That made the $450+ bill last week for the furnace repair hurt all the more.

Unfortunately, since my townhome hasn't sold, I'll likely end up renting it after the New Year, which won't cover but about 2/3rds of its monthly expenses (mortgage, taxes, insurance). 

[davefoxx]

Okay, folks.  Thanks to the hard work of David K. Smith and his time spent on my venture when I'm sure he has better things to do during the weekend, here's the latest track plan.  What does everyone think?  Personally, I love it and can't thank DKS enough for his help.

DFF

[Chris333]

I have added on to a door in the same way. I think it works great, go for it!

[Brakie]

That is one great plan..I think David K did a swell job.
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As a side note and strictly for my taste I would add one more switch at Raeford for another industry.

[DKS]