Interactive Clinic Suggestion

[MichaelT]

Afternoon,

I was combing through the interactive clinics and something came to mind that I hadn't seen, so I thought I would throw it out for some of you more experienced folks to offer your thoughts.

Planning, design, layout, research, of your layouts railroad???

Did some of you have a certain railroad that you just had to model?
Did some of you have a certain area that you had to model?
How much creative license did you/do you take from reality to make your design/objective fit on your layout?
For those of you who run a continuous loop on your layout, how do you address the loop? How do you dress it up to disguise it from being just a loop?

Those are some of the questions that I would like to have addressed and discussed. I've had some "railroad" issues and I'm hoping reading how some of you handle them, I'll get a better idea of how to progress.

Michael

[wm3798]

Okay, You First! ;D
Lee

[MichaelT]

Okay, You First! ;D
Lee

Ha ha...funny guy!! If I had a first, then it would have been a clinic, and not a clinic suggestion.

I guess that is more of a request for advice....I wanna run Mopac, but I also have what I think is a pretty good idea for a free lance railroad...so how do the twain mix? How much liberty would one have to make the freelance story stick? Etc...so on...and so forth.........

among other things

[Matthew Roberts]

Lol....

sounds like I what I made a 11+ pg thread out of...

[davefoxx]

I guess that is more of a request for advice....I wanna run Mopac, but I also have what I think is a pretty good idea for a free lance railroad...so how do the twain mix? How much liberty would one have to make the freelance story stick? Etc...so on...and so forth.........

among other things

Michael,

Why not model both?  Take advantage of the freelance to build something that's great to operate, but throw in the Mopac as an interchange or even one road having trackage rights over the other line's route.  The options are almost limitless, so don't hesitate to model a freelance road, if that's your thing.  If it's plausible enough through tons of research of the area to be modeled, then the story will stick.  There are a lot of freelance model railroads out there that are, or were, incredible.  Heck, Allen McClelland's HO scale Virginian & Ohio Ry. has even had its own Yahoo!Group and Historical Society!

Dave

[MichaelT]

Well here's one note of interest I'd like to bring up for some suggestions and what some of you have done.

/>
That's a quick 4:30 clip of a short train doing a "once around" on my current layout plan. The train stays on the base level, doesn't go on the mainline, I've another clip of that on my you tube page.

So you have a loop of track. Of course there are no sidings installed yet, the small yard isn't installed yet, but will those things be enough to "mask" the fact that the engine(s) chase the caboose around the layout? (Except for the branchline, at this point I'm designing that as a PTP).

So the train lets say leaves the city of Argenta, heading east...it's going to travel through Jacksonport, through Stamps, through Wynne, and close to the Doniphan Lumber Company near Kensett, but then before you know it, it's back in Argenta?....I understand that's a fact of reason with the continuous loop track setup, and I guess in order to at times "turn the trains on and let them run", that's a necessary acceptance?

I guess I'm just at a point in things that I want to make sure that where I'm going with this is ok...so I don't look back during a remodel down the road and say "well if I'd of thought of this back then, I wouldn't be doing this now..."

Michael

[wm3798]

Watching your video, I have the following thoughts...  I'm assuming that this is your "branch" railroad that's running, and that the Main will be on the higher level... or is it vice versa?

Anyhoo, following the train around the first section isn't too big a deal, as the tracks are adequately separated from each other, so some basic scenic separation will do the trick visually there.  But as you come back around the other side, starting around 1:52 on the video, there's a lot going on track wise.  That's about where the junction track comes off to head up grade to the other route, correct?  Since that seems to be your major junction point, I would see if you could work your interchange yard into that area.  You would have to cut back the platform you have over the tracks around 1:58, since it would be impractical to have yard tracks in a tunnel...  I'm assuming you have some sort of switching area planned for that platform, so that would have to be re-thought, but probably not by much.

Okay, moving right along, at 2:14, the return loop starts.  I would fill that loop with a large industry, and perhaps your engine terminal.  This would draw the eye away from the train making the loop.  Operationally, I would make this section a branch coming off of the yard to serve the industry.  The loop would serve as a switching lead during operating sessions, or with a second track added, it could become a place to stage interchange traffic coming from somewhere off the layout.  In terms of operation, that branch would end at the Coke can (about 2:37) with some sort of view block to mask the fact that it continues on around for your loop.  As the return track comes back around, pull it into the back end of the yard scene so it's not obvious that it's the return track.  Then, around 3:15, add an interlocking between the double tracks, so it appears as though the double track is a long siding and the return loop track is a diverging route.  That siding would last until about 3:32.  About like this:


After that, the line separation will do the trick.  So in that scenario, your shortline is effectively a point to point, you can send trains from the yard eastbound over the longer part of the line, ending at the run around at 3:15, or westbound to the Soda Can.  Or you can fix yourself some good Arkansas moonshine, and set the turnouts for continuous running and sit back and enjoy.

How's about them apples?
Lee

[MichaelT]

Lee,

I'm certainly going to look at your suggestions and see if some of those would work. I've drawn up a quick diagram of things.



The black lines and blue lines are track that is already down. The red lines are what I was considering to install next. I've been thinking from the start that I wanted the peninsula to be the "yard area"...maybe that's not the best idea but that is where I was going with it.
The other loop, where the branchline rises, I was considering two or three industries with a few tracks going to each. As things are now, the mainline is the continuous loop, and the branchline is what comes off and rises...should I consider changing those up?

The platform I was looking at a lumber facility, and an interchange line with a small depot to go off layout, probably BNSF or UP;

I'm going to print out your post later and make some notes from it, probably have a few more questions as well...and maybe some others will chime in with some thoughts too.

michael

[3rdrail]

Michael, you've go a BIG problem with that terminal shown in the lower right hand corner of the layout. Is it the same scale as the rest of the layout? If those boxes are supposed to be one square foot, you have a runaround siding less than two feet long! And an engine escape track only long enough for a small steam engine or single unit Diesel. I've got a five foot long passing siding and that's too short. My other two are 11 feet long.

[MichaelT]

Michael, you've go a BIG problem with that terminal shown in the lower right hand corner of the layout. Is it the same scale as the rest of the layout? If those boxes are supposed to be one square foot, you have a runaround siding less than two feet long! And an engine escape track only long enough for a small steam engine or single unit Diesel. I've got a five foot long passing siding and that's too short. My other two are 11 feet long.

The track diagrams aren't quite to scale  yet...just scribblings to get an idea of what I want. Actually I have the ability to extend 12" wide from the bottom there about 8ft if it becomes necessary.
Right now none of that is cemented in stone, just drawings to get the idea across, but thanks for the warnings !  ;D

[wm3798]

No, keep the main and the branch designations as you have them...  that was my mistake.  
I'd make the peninsula your industrial area, with switches accessing it from both sides.  With a view block down the middle of the peninsula, it could serve as two distinct locations.

That's how I set up my temporary peninsula.  If you try to pack the yard in there, I think you'll quickly find that your storage tracks will end up a lot shorter than you want them, especially by the time you factor in switching leads, caboose tracks, and connections to your engine terminal.
If you run the yard along the left side of the layout, you can have fewer, but longer tracks, with access from each end.  This will give you a whole lot more flexibility in how the yard works, and eliminate the need for a wye track to get east or west bound.


Something like this...

Also, if the MoPac was double tracked, you could simply push your loop together so you basically have a double track main that passes through the scene once, and put return loops at each end.  That would certainly clean up your scenery, and prevent you from having to justify multiple tracks going through any given location.  It's a little tricky to wire with DC, but with DCC it's a snap with a couple of reverse circuits.  If you chose to do that, it would free up a lot more real estate for your branch line to serve more industries, and probably curve around in a few more Ozarks...

Lee

[MichaelT]

No, keep the main and the branch designations as you have them...  that was my mistake.  
I'd make the peninsula your industrial area, with switches accessing it from both sides.  With a view block down the middle of the peninsula, it could serve as two distinct locations.

Ok, I'm following you...kinda like the idea....

That's how I set up my temporary peninsula......If you run the yard along the left side of the layout, you can have fewer, but longer tracks, with access from each end.  This will give you a whole lot more flexibility in how the yard works, and eliminate the need for a wye track to get east or west bound.

Ok, fewer, but longer tracks...what would you think would be a goal to shoot for? I need an arrival departure track, then what, three? four? storage tracks?

Also, if the MoPac was double tracked, you could simply push your loop together so you basically have a double track main that passes through the scene once, and put return loops at each end.  That would certainly clean up your scenery, and prevent you from having to justify multiple tracks going through any given location.  It's a little tricky to wire with DC, but with DCC it's a snap with a couple of reverse circuits.  If you chose to do that, it would free up a lot more real estate for your branch line to serve more industries, and probably curve around in a few more Ozarks...
Lee

Argh...you guys are good...it's frustrating, but I'm learning!!! LOL
I've made a couple quick changes, and making those changes has led to a few more prospects "while I'm at it" type things....lol

michael

[MichaelT]

So let me ask this, see if it makes that much of a difference?
What if I run the yard off the back mainline instead of the front? Easier curve to work with being on the inside of the curve?



I could carry the passing/arrival track farther around the loop, and have even longer yard tracks than on the inside?

[wm3798]

Okay, but you want to think about having your yard tracks at the back edge of the table... consider that this is where you'll be doing most of the work, throwing switches, placing cars by hand etc.  Do you really want to be reaching across the table to do all that?

If you power all the yard turnouts it's less of a problem, but that costs money... ground throws are cheap!

I'd figure three through tracks to serve as your main line runner track, plus two A/D tracks.  Given the size of the layout, you'll probably want at least 4 bowl tracks, although since I don't see any staging "off line" you might want to add two more longer through tracks to hold a passenger train, or a through coal drag or some other such that doesn't require a lot of switching work.

Lee

[MichaelT]

Thanks Lee,

Measuring from the front of the benchwork to the main track closest to the wall (back) is only 20", so if I go that route, I'd have ample room to reach switch stands for the yard there. Of course I'll look at both and setup some test tracks before I go further on this part...changing the mainline track is minimal trouble compared to setting up a yard and then changing it. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "bowl tracks", so I'll need a little more definition of that one (term I haven't heard before).

No staging off line yet, but that's not to say it's not a consideration, just haven't found a good spot for it. Thinking about running a line off the bottom right end of the layout into the rooms bathroom, could setup a nice little 8-10" deep shelf there for some possible staging.

Michael