Author Topic: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle  (Read 3151 times)

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C855B

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2022, 03:16:09 PM »
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Yes. They run the same firmware. Functionality is identical, though some operations are slightly awkward on the -50 versus the -100 due to button relocations. You wouldn't know the difference if you weren't accustomed to the -100.
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Jbub

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2022, 06:40:56 PM »
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That's good to know because I think I would like the -50's knob more than the -100's wheel. I'm really interested to see what their command station will do and be priced at.
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trainzluvr

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2022, 08:15:11 PM »
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That's good to know because I think I would like the -50's knob more than the -100's wheel. I'm really interested to see what their command station will do and be priced at.

What would you like to know about CS-105?

Jbub

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2022, 09:06:29 PM »
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What would you like to know about CS-105?
I saw your unboxing video of the beta version. I'm at the stage of planning where I can explore different modes of control. My envisioned layout wouldn't necessarily benefit from LCC since it'll be a small around the room type but I would like some level of automation. Price does matter to me and that's why I won't buy the -100 controller. 300 bucks is just too steep. What have been your impressions as you've tested the command station.
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trainzluvr

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2022, 10:37:21 PM »
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I saw your unboxing video of the beta version. I'm at the stage of planning where I can explore different modes of control. My envisioned layout wouldn't necessarily benefit from LCC since it'll be a small around the room type but I would like some level of automation. Price does matter to me and that's why I won't buy the -100 controller. 300 bucks is just too steep. What have been your impressions as you've tested the command station.

I hate to admit that I've done limited testing with the CS-105 so far. I got pushed into an overtime mode at work recently which really threw a wrench into my plans. Before that I was looking for a cheap NCE Pro Cab to use for testing. There is a lot of interest among modelers in how the NCE cabs would interact with this CS. Now I'm thinking that rather than making some big long review video, I want to chop it up into bite size features, and focus on one area at a time.

As I also have a UWT-100, it ties to the CS flawlessly. I know it's a steep entry point for the UWT-100, but the UWT-50s are finally shipping, too, and look good (I got couple on pre-order). The first time I connected the UWT-100 and CS-105, I got that giddy feeling of empowerment. Because it runs in LCC mode (as opposed to WiThrottle), the throttle has full access to the CS and any aspect of the configuration can be managed through it. Sure you can plug the LCC network to your computer/JMRI, but you need LCC Buffer-USB, or similar interface.

With just the Throttle/CS combo it feels complete. This was a big deal to me, and one of the main reasons why I bought into LCC back when - no need for a computer to run the layout. The best I can explain the way CS is built, is through a "software defined" features. As firmware is upgradeable, new features and fixes can be applied to both the throttle and the CS.

The first updates saw the coveted Train Database go live which allows for adding locomotives into the CS by just entering their road number. The entry is automatically created in the database (LCC node is created for each locomotive) and from there on, this locomotive is available to any LCC capable throttle on the network (and JMRI through the computer connection).

But at a press of a button you can see an entire roster on the throttle. You can name each locomotive/node e.g. "Eastbound Coal Drag" and that's what you see on the screen of the throttle. Defintely beats remembering road numbers or looking for them in some underground located staging yard. :)

This is being taken one step further now, with an automatic "sign on" system (via Railcom), where you won't even need to enter a loco into the Train Database. Any Railcom capable locomotive will automatically log onto the LCC network once you put it onto the track; send its details to the CS, and become available in the roster. The sign on system is similar to Marklin/Motorola, which is also supported for our European friends.

Without these software defined features, this wouldn't be possible, and it's open to expansion as far as the hardware permits. Which is a real engineering marvel onto itself. I think I posted the photo of the PCB before, but here it is again:



It's crazy how much they packed into it: Cab Bus, XpressNET, LCC, 5 Amp booster, built-in WiFi Access Point for 4 throttles (stations), PoM, Accessory control...

I believe that the LCC eco-system is going to be a big thing for automation. I also have a (somewhat educated) suspicion that we haven't seen everything yet when it comes to LCC and automation, which makes me even more excited.

My layout is room size too, and I want to be able to automate many things, for when people are not around to perform them. This Consumer/Producer stuff in LCC isn't anything groundbreaking as similar messaging has been done with MQTT. But there are commercial products available for LCC, and many people prefer that to thinkering with DIY electronics.

Sadly, LCC is still a bit of a "rocket science", despite it being ratified as a NMRA standard. Even those who are now adopting it for their layouts are somewhat struggling with certain things, imho. The learning curve is still steep. So it will be an uphill trajectory for the time being, before enough people had their hands "dirtied" with it.

It is definitely the future of the hobby and I wouldn't suggest anyone investing into current NCE or Digitrax DCC systems, no matter how small or large their layout is.

nstars

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2022, 06:32:37 PM »
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The automatic sign on system, is that based on the DCC-A standard?

Marc

Maletrain

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2022, 07:19:50 PM »
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What would you like to know about CS-105?

My main interest in LCC will be for signaling, without using a computer as an interface for operation.  (Using a computer for set-up would be OK, but not ideal for me.) 

The signals would be rather complicated for lighting purposes - B&O "Color Position Light Signals" or "CPLs".  They have up to 4 pairs of bulbs for the main signal head, with up to 6 additional individual bulbs to modify the main head aspect with regard to the speed allowed at the current and next signals.  The logic used in LCC nodes seems like a good way to make realistic signal aspects from a conglomeration of turnout positions and block occupancy info being fed onto an LCC bus.

But, I have almost no current knowledge of the actual LCC modules or the way the DCC/LCC gateway works in the TCS command station.  Educational videos would be great.

dpharris

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LCC Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2022, 08:44:13 PM »
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There is a whole series of videos on LCC here:

RRCirkits has a good set of boards for LCC: http://rrcirkits.com/description/index.html , including power supply, general and signalling nodes, LCC-Loconet gateway, etc. 

And of course TCS is producing a CS and throttles. 

Life is good! 

David

trainzluvr

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2022, 09:03:22 PM »
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The automatic sign on system, is that based on the DCC-A standard?

Is DCC-A the Advanced Extended Packet Format? If so then yes, as per S-9.2.1.1, https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.2.1.1_advanced_extended_packet_formats.pdf


But, I have almost no current knowledge of the actual LCC modules or the way the DCC/LCC gateway works in the TCS command station.  Educational videos would be great.

If you plan to do signaling, you can stay in the LCC land exclusively. There's no reason to cross into DCC at all.

Your BoDs (Block Occupancy Detectors / LCC nodes) will produce events that will dictate the logic on the signal masts (driven by LCC consumer nodes). Don't even need a CS for any of this, just RR-Cirkits Signal LCC nodes, with Tower LCC and BOD-4/8s. These nodes have some very advanced logic built into them, which could probably generate any imaginable combination.

All of that will work with your existing DCC system, and a number of people already have setups working in similar fashion.

nstars

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2022, 07:04:49 AM »
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Is DCC-A the Advanced Extended Packet Format? If so then yes, as per S-9.2.1.1, https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.2.1.1_advanced_extended_packet_formats.pdf[/

DCC-A is the standard for automatic sign up as defined in the RCN218 standard, which is also mentioned in the NMRA standard. From a quick check of the text I get the impression that they want to make sure these standards are aligned. For me that makes this quite interesting as multiple European manufacture (like for example Zimo) will support this standard in the future. In my opinion, this will make DCC more accessible.

Marc

Maletrain

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2022, 10:15:46 AM »
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Is DCC-A the Advanced Extended Packet Format? If so then yes, as per S-9.2.1.1, https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.2.1.1_advanced_extended_packet_formats.pdf


If you plan to do signaling, you can stay in the LCC land exclusively. There's no reason to cross into DCC at all.

Your BoDs (Block Occupancy Detectors / LCC nodes) will produce events that will dictate the logic on the signal masts (driven by LCC consumer nodes). Don't even need a CS for any of this, just RR-Cirkits Signal LCC nodes, with Tower LCC and BOD-4/8s. These nodes have some very advanced logic built into them, which could probably generate any imaginable combination.

All of that will work with your existing DCC system, and a number of people already have setups working in similar fashion.

Of course, turnout positions also affect proper signal aspects.  I am going to have to figure out how to control various switches - options being manual, DCC, or LCC, or some combinations for specific situations.

reinhardtjh

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Re: TCS Now Taking Pre-Orders for UWT-50 Mini-Throttle
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2022, 09:15:15 PM »
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For those interested but didn't pre-order, TCS announced they have 150 available  that they were able to find parts for to get built.  The next run is estimated to be around August (2022 but who knows for sure).

https://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=134

Bryan at Streamlined Backshops also just updated his site and he has a few of each type (Encoder and Potentiometer).  Currently 5 -E and 9 -P models in stock

https://store.sbs4dcc.com/TCS-TrainControlSystems-2.aspx

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