N scale working upper quadrant train order signal by ATSF N Scale Models

[Dirk Jan Blikkendaal]

A 3 position (red, yellow, green) upper quadrant train order signal by ATSF N Scale Models.
Full description on the WWW.ATSFNSCALEMODELS.COM website, see SIGNALS.
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[Ed Kapuscinski]

I love the gigantic mechanism to power the tiny signal.

But this is beautiful.

[peteski]

I love the gigantic mechanism to power the tiny signal.

But this is beautiful.

My thoughts exactly. It's cute (while the actual semaphore looks really good).

So is this just a proof of concept, or will these become available as kits or finished models?
Either way, I think shrinking the mechanism might be a good idea.  There are very small micro RC servos available, or use some small geared motor drives from eBay (which DKS uses extensively on his layout)

[Dirk Jan Blikkendaal]

This is the 'PROTOTYPE" model but the production ones will be almost the same.......looking a bit more straightforward.
The 2,5 rpm 3 to 6 V motors are quite bulky but reliable and silent; I tried small geared motors but these produced quite a bit of noise...... at least the ones I found/used. 
Using servos saves space but adds cost plus knowledge of control....... this is simple pushbutton operation, no knowledge of electronics/servos/arduino or else necessary.
Whats underneath the table top doesn't show......its the signal that counts....... my opinion.

These units are available for sale as finished models (made to order), ready to be added to your layout, just as my other ATSF semaphore signal and lower quadrant train order board. 
Check out the website WWW.ATSFNSCALEMODELS.COM for additional info.

[peteski]

This is the 'PROTOTYPE" model but the production ones will be almost the same.......looking a bit more straightforward.
The 2,5 rpm 3 to 6 V motors are quite bulky but reliable and silent; I tried small geared motors but these produced quite a bit of noise...... at least the ones I found/used. 
Using servos saves space but adds cost plus knowledge of control....... this is simple pushbutton operation, no knowledge of electronics/servos/arduino or else necessary.
Whats underneath the table top doesn't show......its the signal that counts....... my opinion.

These units are available for sale as finished models (made to order), ready to be added to your layout, just as my other ATSF semaphore signal and lower quadrant train order board. 
Check out the website WWW.ATSFNSCALEMODELS.COM for additional info.

Small servos are very inexpensive. I was also thinking of using them strictly as a motor and gears (removing all the electronics inside).  But  that modification means that servos would have to be dissembled. Might not be a thing that you are comfortable with.

The small geared motors I'm thinking of are basically smaller version of what you used (with open gearbox).  They are not very loud (especially if ran at a reduced voltage).
Here is a sample listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/383830890226 They cost less than $2 and if you buy larger quantity, you use "make an offer" feature to get them even cheaper.

[Cajonpassfan]

Dirk, this is excellent news! Order coming up as soon as I figure out what else from your fabulous ATSF production line I NEED
I have your lower quadrant version for Cajon station, and the motors work and fit just fine; visually what’s above ground that maters most. Thank you for doing the upper quadrant version as well, I’m ecstatic!!
(a pic to prove that is attached...that’s me with my thumbs up!)
Otto

[Dirk Jan Blikkendaal]

Small servos are very inexpensive. I was also thinking of using them strictly as a motor and gears (removing all the electronics inside).  But  that modification means that servos would have to be dissembled. Might not be a thing that you are comfortable with.

The small geared motors I'm thinking of are basically smaller version of what you used (with open gearbox).  They are not very loud (especially if ran at a reduced voltage).
Here is a sample listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/383830890226 They cost less than $2 and if you buy larger quantity, you use "make an offer" feature to get them even cheaper.

Thanks, I have bought/tried these as well, also 3 to 6 V DC,  but I forgot to mention the real difference... I could not find one slower than 44 rpm......price of my motor(s) is even a bit lower btw...
The ones I use/show have the same length (taken over the axle), are certainly a bit wider, 35 mm versus 12 mm, but run at 2,5 rpm...... and thats what I need for these signals.
The main thing causing the bulkiness is the drive..... I tried to shorten the lever but calibrating the movement/position of the signal arm in the up and down position became very difficult/tricky.
I also did not want to make the signal too tall under the base plate...... its 40 mm now .......in case someone's benchwork is not very high.
Baseplate size for the double motor trainorder signals is 50 x 90 mm and for the single motor semaphore 40 x 60 mm........ looks huge in the pictures due to the signal itself  (slim and 70 mm high)

[Dirk Jan Blikkendaal]

Dirk, this is excellent news! Order coming up as soon as I figure out what else from your fabulous ATSF production line I NEED
I have your lower quadrant version for Cajon station, and the motors work and fit just fine; visually what’s above ground that maters most. Thank you for doing the upper quadrant version as well, I’m ecstatic!!
(a pic to prove that is attached...that’s me with my thumbs up!)
Otto

Thanks Otto, looking forward to your mail!
Just to tease a little bit....... will be posting Blue Goose 3460 (original and deskirted) shells and tenders on a adapted Concor Hudson chassis shortly and the bulldognose 1/10 spot (shell and trucks) on a modified Kato E8 chassis.......

[Lemosteam]

Dirk, maybe consider a printed gear rack on the end of the rod, and a pinion on the motor, the size of the pinion can also be used to fine tune the the speed of the travel and possibly reduce the overall height.  The time the motor is on will determine the amount of rod travel.

Also a slow moving servo could be used.  Lever ratios could be used to control rod travel

The are not criticisms just ideas that pop into mind as I look at the impressive design.  May I ask what you are using to start/stop the motors?

[peteski]

Thanks, I have bought/tried these as well, also 3 to 6 V DC,  but I forgot to mention the real difference... I could not find one slower than 44 rpm......price of my motor(s) is even a bit lower btw...
The ones I use/show have the same length (taken over the axle), are certainly a bit wider, 35 mm versus 12 mm, but run at 2,5 rpm...... and thats what I need for these signals.

I often use geared motors at  reduced voltage to slow down the output shaft rotation.  For example running a 12V motor with 3V or a 6V motor with 1.5V.  Even then, there is still plenty of torque available (and your design wouldn't even need much torque). And as an added benefit is that they run quieter than at full voltage.  I just felt that I should mention that too.

[Simon D.]

Someone in the UK is developing a servo driven turnout etc mount:

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He claims it can be speed controlled down to a 'crawl'.

[Dirk Jan Blikkendaal]

Thanks John, Peteski and Simon,

All feedback appreciated!

I just wanted to keep the system as simple as possible. Its a pushbutton in one of the motor leads (and I happen to have a 5,8 V DC bus line in my layout..... just fine).
For those who want to automate the signal I offer them (all three) also without the motors/drive to use your own preferred system..... servo/arduino/tortoise.....
For a more detailed story please read my SIGNALS website page.... explains and shows (more pictures) how these little signals work.

[C855B]

Yes. Dirk made a couple of his wonderful upper-quad block signals for me without the motor mechanism so I could use micro servos with a Tam Valley semaphore driver:

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I'm still researching 1:1 vs. time period relative to modeling a specific ATSF station, but I may have a use for one.

EDIT: Alas, the ATSF station I'm modeling had a modified 3-color vertical signal that replaced the upper-quad semaphore in the 1950s.