UP City of Los Angeles 1956 Consist Q..

[EspeeGoldenState]

Hi guys.

Forgive me for drudging out an old topic per say, but I was going through the search feature when I came across the discussion and Mike Skibbe's model160 article.

I'm looking to expand the original Kato CoLA set, and originally based it off Fred Klein's page until I realized his train was a mismatch of cars from both 56 and 57. I came across Mike's article on M160 after the fact, but it leaves me a little confused. I bought the original set to supplement my UP excursion train, and over the past few years I've managed to replace all the cars but ended up stripping the extra Dome Diner for use for the KCS business train, so I started doing research on train consists and realized I could find another CoLA and combine the two and make it all work out in the end for the most part.

I want to base it after April 1956 but before the Dome Obs Lounge was reconfigured for mid-train service in Late 56.

Comparing Mike's M160 article, Fred's article, and a post by hnipper (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=23702.msg230017#msg230017) I think I'm ok for how I've consisted it. I just want to make sure I'm correct for the timeframe. Henry has a 6-6-4 National sleeper before the lounge dome obs, but neither Fred or yourself have one listed. Hopefully what I've listed isn't confusing.

Any help is much appreciated! Chris

This would be consist from what I could figure out, so not sure how far off it is:

ABBA E9 set
Storage Mail 5639
Baggage Dorm 6007
Coach 5410
Coach 5449
Dome Coach 7002
Coach* (x2? Fred has 5 total 44-seat coaches listed, so I’m assuming a combined CoLA/Challenger)
Lounge (6205)
10-6 Sleeper Pacific Union
Diner (Henry has this listed as a 4800 series, but Mike don't have one)*
Transcon 10-6 Sleeper (I plan to use one of the Kato Broadway Limited Rapids or Kato NYC TCL River car for this, over a complete UP colored train)*
Dome Diner 8001
5 Bedroom Buffet Lounge Omaha
11 Bedroom Placid Waters
5-2-2 Ocean Series Sleeper (Core Kit, USP sides)
4-4-2 Imperial Sleeper (Centralia Car Shops)
10-6 Sleeper* (Pacific Guard from first run CoLA)
10-6 Sleeper* (Renamed Pacific car, Fred has it listed the train usually ran with 3?) (OR would this be one of the 6-6-4 National sleepers?)
Dome Lounge Obs 9000

[learmoia]

In doing research to find evidence of a UP paint NYC 'River' car,
I found a video of COLA trains on Youtube from the 50s/early 60s that showed the full train.. but I did see the PRR car.. (in the video it was 2nd or 3rd from the rear).. along with the Transcon Pacific cars that were common on the NYC trains.

But if you can ID window arrangements it would allow you to piece together consists.

[robert3985]

According to my information, NYC did not paint their COLA sleepers into UP colors.  NYC sleepers alternated with PRR Rapids series sleepers (which WERE painted in UP colors) every other train, but never (or maybe EXTREMELY RARELY) with PRR and NYC sleepers being in the same train at the same time.

Soooo....if you're looking to spot a UP colored NYC sleeper in a COLA consist while researching the prototype, it ain't gonna happen.

By the opposite side of the coin, PRR colored sleepers in a COLA consist in 1956 that weren't painted UP colors, probably never happened either.

But, ya never knows what you'll find if you do enough research!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Point353]

According to my information, NYC did not paint their COLA sleepers into UP colors.  NYC sleepers alternated with PRR Rapids series sleepers (which WERE painted in UP colors) every other train, but never (or maybe EXTREMELY RARELY) with PRR and NYC sleepers being in the same train at the same time.

What information do you have that shows in 1956 that the NYC through sleeper on the UP COLA alternated with a PRR sleeper?
The July 1956 NYC timetable states that the NYC through sleeper on the COLA operated daily.
How then could it alternate with a PRR car?

[Mark5]

According to my information, NYC did not paint their COLA sleepers into UP colors.  NYC sleepers alternated with PRR Rapids series sleepers (which WERE painted in UP colors) every other train, but never (or maybe EXTREMELY RARELY) with PRR and NYC sleepers being in the same train at the same time.

Hey Bob, if true you should let Don Strack know! https://utahrails.net/pass/pass-non-up.php

Mark

[EspeeGoldenState]

According to my information, NYC did not paint their COLA sleepers into UP colors.  NYC sleepers alternated with PRR Rapids series sleepers (which WERE painted in UP colors) every other train, but never (or maybe EXTREMELY RARELY) with PRR and NYC sleepers being in the same train at the same time.

Soooo....if you're looking to spot a UP colored NYC sleeper in a COLA consist while researching the prototype, it ain't gonna happen.

By the opposite side of the coin, PRR colored sleepers in a COLA consist in 1956 that weren't painted UP colors, probably never happened either.

But, ya never knows what you'll find if you do enough research!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Bob, @robert3985

Fred uses this photo in his build of a consist page. And its obviously not Yellow/Gray.

"The COLA in Cheyenne in November 1956 with a 4-8-4 Northern to help with speed over Sherman Hill and make up an hour’s lost time. Note the dome coach has a couple of flat top coaches ahead of it, and there is a dark sleeper back in the consist. This is probably a Pennsylvania Rapids series sleeper in its native tuscan color or a NYC car in grey color. Stan Kistler photo from Classic Trains magazine, Spring 2013.

Chris

[Missaberoad]

Hey Bob, if true you should let Don Strack know! https://utahrails.net/pass/pass-non-up.php

Mark

Under NYC Note C has this addendum.

(Note: Correction from Jeff Cauthen states that these three cars were not painted UP yellow and gray.)

[Mark5]

Under NYC Note C has this addendum.

In that case why is it still there?  Page heading: Non-Union Pacific Cars (painted UP yellow and gray)

Thanks for pointing out the note!

Mark

[Sokramiketes]

Hey Bob, if true you should let Don Strack know! https://utahrails.net/pass/pass-non-up.php

Mark

He seems to know.

   "Repainted from NYC two-tone gray to UP yellow and gray on the dates shown above. (Note: Correction from Jeff Cauthen states that these three cars were not painted UP yellow and gray.)"

[Nato]

       First off let me tell you about my trip in 1954 on transcontinental sleepers, Salt Lake to New York. I traveled with my parents and two sisters to visit my dads parents in Brooklyn. Eastbound we went on the California Zephyr. Our through car was a regular 10-6 car" Silver Bay. We had a layover in Chicago between trains, but no station change. Our car was placed in the consist of The General Trailblazer,  PRR train to new York. This was a full service train with lounge and diner. Return trip two weeks later was on a Chicago North & Western, Union Pacific routing. We were in UP 10-6 car Pacific Gardens. It was in the consist of a PRR numbered, but not named train to Chicago. It was a mix of heavyweight and light cars with food service. Our car was coupled on one end to a heavyweight car and the diaphragms did not match too good, there was squeaking and banging all night long. We had most of a day in Chicago while our car was switched over to North Western Station, so we visited the Museum of Science and Industry, where I got to see the original O Gauge Santa Fe Layout. We took a "Parmalee" transfer/limo car over to the North Western Station. Our car was in the COLA consist which included one of the former 1937 round end observation cars either the former "Sun Valley" or "Knob Hill" both now given numbers only. There was also the usual club lounge mid train next to the diner, I do not think the barber shop had been removed yet from this car. Before we departed I looked out our car window and on the next  track over there was a Green and Yellow streamlined train. I asked my dad what that might be and he looked out and was able to read the tail sign on the observation car "The 400".Our ride across Iowa that night was the smoothest I have ever had on a train even the stops and starts at stations. The ride at close to 90 MPH across Wyoming in the observation car was amazing as we flew through locals like Waumsetter (spell check) Borie , with quick stops at various towns. Through sleepers were gone by the time I got to make a similar tip in 1958 ,the train was a Domeliner, the rear cars already converted for mid train use, and the Milwaukee Road was the Chicago connection. It may say two NYC cars were repainted, but I have never seen photos and photographs of NYC cars in through service were in the gray scheme. I also heard as Robert points that New York Central would not consent to repaint cars. Nate Goodman (Nato). 

[MVW]

       Return trip two weeks later was on a Chicago North & Western, Union Pacific routing. We were in UP 10-6 car Pacific Gardens.

70 years and 8 million miles later ...

https://www.wattrain.net/News/ArtMID/467/ArticleID/97/70-Years-and-8-Million-Miles-Later-Amtrak-Donates-Well-Traveled-Sleeping-Car-to-MuseumMuseum-of-the-American-Railroad

Jim

[robert3985]

What information do you have that shows in 1956 that the NYC through sleeper on the UP COLA alternated with a PRR sleeper?
The July 1956 NYC timetable states that the NYC through sleeper on the COLA operated daily.
How then could it alternate with a PRR car?

Easy.  At least two consists of cars and engines travel the tracks daily.  One going east, the other going west....every day.  One consists has the PRR sleeper(s), the other has the NYC sleepers (s). 

I haven't done the research, but how long did it take for a COLA train to get from the its eastern origin to Los Angeles??  Probably at least a couple of days.  Sooo....this means that there may have been four or more COLA trains traveling the double-track mainlines, two simultaneously going east and two simultaneously going west, separated by many hundreds of miles.

But, I haven't done the research...so I might be totally wrong.

For my personal usage I'll be running two consists that are not identical...one powered by E-9's in an A-B-B lashup, with an NYC sleeper in NYC two-tone grey and a converted observation car for mid-train use, but positioned on the back to show off the conversion.  The other COLA in a more typical early 1956 configuration with E-9's in an A-B-A lashup, with a yellow PRR sleeper and an unconverted observation-only car on the end...one train on the east-bound track, the other on the west-bound track.

Since my interest right now is configuring the trains properly and they will never "operate" in any way other than run through the scenery on my highly compressed 70 mile representation of western USA UP trackage, I haven't done any research as to what happens to the train west of Ogden (the Crossroads of the West), or past the end of the grade at Wahsatch, 15 miles west of Evanston, WY.  All I'm interested in is seeing them run through the scenery, and eventually be switched, loaded and serviced under the awnings at Ogden Union Station...then run off scenery going west, or head up the grade going east...to disappear past the wye at Wahsatch, with maybe a grungy, black FEF helper (switched on in Ogden) on the front, helping to Green River.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Point353]

Easy.  At least two consists of cars and engines travel the tracks daily.  One going east, the other going west....every day.  One consists has the PRR sleeper(s), the other has the NYC sleepers (s). 

I haven't done the research, but how long did it take for a COLA train to get from the its eastern origin to Los Angeles??  Probably at least a couple of days.  Sooo....this means that there may have been four or more COLA trains traveling the double-track mainlines, two simultaneously going east and two simultaneously going west, separated by many hundreds of miles.

But, I haven't done the research...so I might be totally wrong.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

What difference would the length of the trip make?
If the COLA ran daily and the NYC through sleeper ran daily, how then could there ever be a COLA without the NYC sleeper (except for some sort of mechanical issue)?