LocSound 76800 problem

[woodone]

I put an LocSound 76800 micro select into a Kato F-3.
I installed a 15 MM round speaker into a blind hole I machined at the rear of the chassis.
Made the headlight & Mars lights separate via using a 603 LED on each lens.
Used 2 1K resistors one to each LED. Programmed F6 so it was the Mars light.
Test ran all Ok.
This unit was being used has a lead loco with 2 F3B’s fowloing behind with Lok Pilots Nano STDs in each B unit.
All tested and ran - shipped to customer- he could not make run-returned found that there was a consist stored into CV 19. Cleared that out and got the Pilots to work but the 76800 did not have sound- did reset- now runs but NO SOUND!
So I did a new down load into the decoder using the Lok programmer, now runs, but stillNO Sound. F6 turns on the Mars light but no flashing.
So I start with a new decoder an install.- Ok every thing is working- but was stalling on test track- thinking it was dirty wheels or rails I put a small drop of contact cleaner on the rails and slid the loco back and forth on the rails while it was powered up. BANG I hear? Look and. See a small capacitor blown on the decoder- of cours the 76800 is now dead.
No shorts to be seen- why would  this happen?
I have installed many of this same decoder into this same type of loco.
Getting a real bad head ache now.
Any ideas- thoughts- Help with any ideas or thoughts.
Thanks in advance
woodone.

[jdcolombo]

I suspect it is just coincidence.  Is it possible that while you were sliding the loco back and forth, a bare wire connection hit the frame?  I doubt it - I'm sure you used shrink wrap on all the connections and nothing could short.  Could a speaker wire have touched the frame, perhaps where the wire is soldered to the speaker terminals?  I doubt that, too.  So I think this is just "one of those things" - that particular decoder was probably going to die in whatever installation it was used for.  It just happened to be one that ALREADY had a decoder problem.

What's really odd is the problem with the first decoder.  Perhaps the audio amp died in it.  But I wouldn't know why.  Send them both back to ESU on a warranty claim.

John C.

[peteski]

That is all odd.

The silent decoder: If you are sure no CV setting is to blame for the silence than it is probably a blown audio amp.  I believe it can blow if either speaker lead touches any of the rail leads.

The blown cap: Is it one of the tantalum caps?
If you didn't accidental short one of its leads to something then it could be "infant mortality" : factory-defective cap which passed the manufacturer's testing and even whatever testing was done at ESU, but then blow soon after that.

[tehachapifan]

Could F8 have been set up to function in consist mode?

[woodone]

See if I can answer most of the reply’s you guys gave me.
To me this is a very straight forward install.-I have done many before. The way Kato makes this model it is a solid metal frame. I machine a 15 MM blind hole at the rear.I fit the speaker into the frame with the speaker wires solder to the speaker feed the leads through a small hole and seal it in with caulking. I then test the speaker leads to make sure the wires are not touching the frame. All wiring is soldered to the locomotives leads. These are well away from any metal. Also the frame is not electrified in anyway. The power is delivered through the trucks via tabs that stick up through plastic guides. The tabs touch strips that are held into place with a plastic holder. My solder joints are made at the two motor tabs, and the pickups wires are soldered to these strips . There is NO way these can move and or short.
These were run with 2 B units that had LokPilots (micro standards.
The LokSound decoder(1st) install did run-but no sound. After I found a consist in the Pilots I checked to see if CV 19 had anything stored- no it was at zero.
So I reset the decoder- No change then I redownloaded the sound file to the decoder-Lok programmer wrote to the decoder with out any problems- Still no sound and the F6 function did not work right- comes on but not has programmed -Mars light.
2nd decoder- I am gun shi now, so the install is done VERY careful. After install
Every thing was working but would stumble- I thought dirty rail and or wheels- this is when I put on some contact cleaner on the track and slid it back and forth WHILE it was powered up and running. Then I heard the bang-
Looked inside and found the blown cap.
Pete the cap is tantaliam but it is mounted to the board of the decoder. I looked at the first decoder and did not see any burn marks, the 2nd the cap is black and the shrink is burned.
On to the 3rd decoder with care I guess?

[RBrodzinsky]

Jerry,

I had the same thing happen (blown Ta cap) on a 73800, reasonably soon after a successful install. For me it was in a Kato PA1. Everything was fine at home, was at a show and put it on a yard track (powered) and BANG. I showed it to Matt Herman a month or so later, and he replaced it.

[peteski]

Yes, I think the blown cap issue is unrelated to the problem with the first (mute) LokSound decoder.  It is likely just an out-of-spec component which failed early.

[woodone]

Only thing worst than having to do a install twice-is having to do it the third time!
You start to wonder if you fall into the IDOIT listing. Doing the same thing over & over and expecting a different result.
The 3rd one is under way now, after striping down to the bare frame! Speaker was removed to check for a bare wire and or a solder joint touching the frame- none were found. So back together it goes. WITH CARE.
If this 3rd one fails, it could become the next flying object to be circling earth!

[peteski]

If this 3rd one fails, it could become the next flying object to be circling earth!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!
Just send it to me.
 

[woodone]

OK, if it fails I will ship it to ya.
Not sure what you would do with it?
Send it back to Matt, for a replacement.
The good news (from me) is Ihave the 3rd install completed-and have it working.
Got the 2pilots in the B units to run with the LocSound A unit.
I think that I am done with this install— At last!

[peteski]

OK, if it fails I will ship it to ya.
Not sure what you would do with it?

I'll make it work! 

[woodone]

PM me your address and I will put it into the mail.
If you can make it work you can keep it- otherwise it’s off to Matt for an replacement.

[peteski]

PM me your address and I will put it into the mail.
If you can make it work you can keep it- otherwise it’s off to Matt for an replacement.

Oops, I think we had a misunderstanding.  What I meant was that if the 3rd decoder fails in the loco, I can take a stab at it.  At least that was how I understood "If this 3rd one fails, it could become the next flying object to be circling earth!".  I thought "it" was the loco.

If you meant the blown decoder, if you can get ESU to replace it, then that makes more sense than me to spend time trying to fix it.

[woodone]

LOL-  Not a locomotive problem. The decoder that was giving me fits!
Doing something 3 times does not sit well with me.
But it is now behind me- the install is working.

[peteski]

LOL-  Not a locomotive problem. The decoder that was giving me fits!
Doing something 3 times does not sit well with me.
But it is now behind me- the install is working.

And I thought all along that you were thinking that it was the installation itself causing the problem (possibly a short somewhere)  blowing multiple decoders.  Wrong again (on my part)