Author Topic: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.  (Read 4361 times)

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pedro

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2014, 09:47:33 PM »
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If you have a Menards by you, go there. They not only have better birch plywood in stock, but you can special order Baltic birch in 4x8 sheets. I just got a sheet of Baltic in 1/2 and 3/4. I think the 3/4 was $77 for a 4x8 sheet. Even the "regular" in-stock birch was far and away better than the Chinese 5-ply "birch" crap HD and Lowes often stock, and cheaper. I made that mistake once, it was full of voids and overlapped plys.

Chris333

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2014, 09:53:57 PM »
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Anyone here use those long guide plates for circular saws. The ones where the saw rides a groove in a piece that is clamped down.

Sokramiketes

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2014, 11:59:20 PM »
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Yeah, we use Baltic Birch ply... 3/4" for the ends, 1/4" tops, and 1/8" sides. http://www.modutrak.com/forums/index.php?threads/build-manual-modutrak-construction-techniques.798/

And Poplar for the 1x2 and 2x2's for the legs. 

And then clear pine for the module end caps, with cheap BC 1/4" plywood:
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The Baltic Birch has tons more layers than Birch faced ply, at least at the lumber yards by us.  Look for a yard that caters to cabinet makers, and they should also be able to rip the sheets for you.

ednadolski

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2014, 12:39:43 AM »
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If you have a Menards by you, go there. They not only have better birch plywood in stock, but you can special order Baltic birch in 4x8 sheets. I just got a sheet of Baltic in 1/2 and 3/4. I think the 3/4 was $77 for a 4x8 sheet. Even the "regular" in-stock birch was far and away better than the Chinese 5-ply "birch" crap HD and Lowes often stock, and cheaper. I made that mistake once, it was full of voids and overlapped plys.

Well all I can say is that most of the dimensional lumber and sheet ply that I have found in my local HDs & Lowes over the last couple years has been nothing but garbage.  Somehow that doesn't stop the prices from going up.

Even if you pay thru the nose for the better grades, with dimensional lumber you are always taking a risk.  It may look straight today but who can say what it will look like in 5-10 years even under ideal conditions?  I go to a local hardwoods supply place and get the cabinet grade plywood, which I think after a decade still should have a decent chance of being in the same shape as when I cut it.

Ed

wcfn100

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2014, 12:52:31 AM »
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The Baltic Birch has tons more layers than Birch faced ply, at least at the lumber yards by us.  Look for a yard that caters to cabinet makers, and they should also be able to rip the sheets for you.

If I was building puny 5' modules, I would have a source.  :) 

Unless I splice, which I don't want to do, I need 65" long pieces.  I'll have to see what Springs has to offer by way of the lumber yards.  I think some will sell to the public.  Maybe I can find 4x8 1/2" Baltic Birch for under $100.   :|



Jason

x600

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2014, 02:17:41 AM »
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I build everything out of that select pine at HD. 1x2s 1x3s 1x4s. I stay in the isle for about 20min. checking each piece to make sure I get straight ones. If I buy straight they stay straight.


This.

Clear Straight Select Pine will work . Good resin based glue (Tightbond III or Gorilla Wood Glue) and screws. Take a little extra care making sure the joints are tight and square.
The pine is light enough that cross braces at 12" oc won't make a whole lot of difference in weight. 2X2 glue blocks in the corners help. I use them for the leg pockets.
1/2 plywood top glued and screwed and the module will stay square.

Everything said here is good advice. but in the spirit of being able to get the thing built in a timely and cost affective manor, select pine is a good bet.

That being said, I had the opportunity to build our new Ballard Why modules from 13ply 3/4 Birch, ripped on a commercial panel saw. SAW-WEET stuff.
These modules will be around and still straight long after I'm gone. The problem is that not every one has easy access to this stuff.




Here's our oNetrak to Ntrak junction, select Tight Knot Pine.


Greg O.

robert3985

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2014, 05:16:48 AM »
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I use premium pine dimensional lumber for my L-girders, risers, gussets and braces.  I use 3/4" birch plywood for the module ends.  I use 2x2 clear redwood balusters for my legs and some risers, braces, skyboard and fascia mounts.

I haven't had any problems whatsoever with warpage, and I don't use joiner tracks.

Some of my modules are over 15 years old, and are just fine.

At one time I was worried about warpage, so I sprayed my basic module benchwork with white sealer.  Worked okay, but my other modules which mate up to the ones I sealed haven't warped either.

Finding straight lumber is becoming more and more difficult.  I buy mine from HD, and I check every piece I buy for straightness.  Since I buy premium pine, I don't worry about knots.

My benchwork for 6' modules, with folding legs, quality hardware, nice adjusting glides on the folding legs, laminated Masonite subroadbed, Masonite skyboard and fascia and 2" Styrofoam scenery base runs me about $100 bucks, which I don't consider to be exorbitant. 

However, I live in a desert State, but the humidity here varies because I live in the mountains near three ski resorts, where there's lots of snow. 

Maybe warpage would be more of a problem in locations where there's high humidity.

Here's a pic of my pine benchwork:


As an added bonus, premium pine dimensional lumber is considerably lighter than plywood.  In my own module construction, I use plywood only on benchwork parts that get a lot of stress, like the ends.

I use premium yellow carpenter's glue, I pre-drill clearance holes for the screws which hold things together while the glue dries, and I countersink 99% of the holes.  I also use either square drive screws or star drive screws, which greatly speed things up.

I also build my modules on an old institutional solid core door (3'X9') which provides a very straight surface, so my modules are pretty square.

You won't have a problem finding the correct length premium pine boards at HD.

Good luck!

« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 05:18:20 AM by robert3985 »

dsumner

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2014, 07:01:08 AM »
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I have had best success using 1x4 poplar for my modules- strong and durable; using 3/8 arauco A/C ply for tops

Sokramiketes

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2014, 08:12:24 AM »
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If I was building puny 5' modules, I would have a source.  :) 

Unless I splice, which I don't want to do, I need 65" long pieces.  I'll have to see what Springs has to offer by way of the lumber yards.  I think some will sell to the public.  Maybe I can find 4x8 1/2" Baltic Birch for under $100.   :|

Jason

Have fun with that extra 5"...  ;)

wcfn100

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Re: Poplar vs. Pine for modules.
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2014, 02:36:28 PM »
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Have fun with that extra 5"...  ;)

If I could fit what I want in 15', I'd go for it.  But that extra 15"  allows for a full 8 spans across the Cedar River and also gives enough room for an important turnout to the freight house on the correct side of one of the roads. I could look and see if I can do just the river in 5' and adjust the other modules.  But for now, 65" is first choice.  It also makes Highland Yard 15" longer so it comes to around 50% the length of the prototype (which works well since the trains will be half the prototype length as well).

I'm hoping to check out one of the local yards tomorrow and see what they have available.

Jason