What are Appropriate N Scale 20' and 40' Containers for a Mid-1980s Layout?

[davefoxx]

As many of you know, I model the Seaboard System in the years 1983-1986.  I've been wanting to model double stack articulated intermodal equipment, and, in this era, I am basically limited to the cars with the bulkheads a/k/a "Twin Stacks."  Check out this Seaboard System video circa 1986 from 2:50 to 4:06:

Well, I just found two five-unit Deluxe Innovations Twin Stack articulated cars on eBay, and, best of all, they're being sold by Chuck!  So, I placed my order, and my Chuckpak will hopefully be en route soon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380918775675
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131209533784

Now, the question is: What are appropriate N scale 20' and 40' containers (and schemes) for the mid-1980s?  Since they'll be running on the S-Line, I likely won't be stacking containers due to overhead clearances.  So, I only need ten 40' containers (less however many pair of 20 footers I ultimately purchase).

Thanks,
DFF

[James Costello]

Well, obviously Sealand is a big factor based on that video, and could certainly form the backbone of your fleet.

International containers are fairly route specific....so research is important - such as where is it going to/from? It was also far more common in that era to see shippers containers and well cars in captive pools - Sealand is a good example of this with their badged Twinstacks.

Consider the early "dual logo panel" 40' containers from DeLuxe and the Fine-N-Scale 20' and 40' resin containers - Microscale makes a bunch of decals for the 80s, including the CTi in the video. Leaser schemes such as IEA and TEX would also be appropriate. You could also look at the Sealand 35' containers that I think Wheels of Time did in resin, that would certainly be unique to model.

Shippers such as Sealand, Maersek, MOL (Mitsui OSK Lines), Hyundai, K-Line, Evergreen and a bunch of other Europeans like Hapag Lloyd would be the main contenders.

Put some on a chassis on a flat car too, beside some purdy Seaboard trailers.

I'm not sure whether American President Lines was on your route or not, but they were certainly amongst the leaders of the day.

Good references include the new Morning Sun Piggyback Guides (which covers all intermodal equipment, not just trailers and flatcars), Solomon's Intermodal Railroading book, Scott Chatfield's articles in Railmodel Journal and David Casdorph's RMC, MRing and Freight Cars Journal work.

I'm happy to help try and identify any other shippers that appear in online photos etc.   

[ljudice]

Just to add a couple of things - I did a lot of railfanning on Conrail in the 1986 and later era on a line that had a lot of intermodal but was not cleared for stacks.

There were a lot of containers on 89' flatcars and 60' flatcars.  Also containers on chassis riding on those oddball TT Frontrunners (UIC type 2 axle cars).  Generally - and this may well have been a Conrail thing - there were international container trains - all well cars or COFC flats --- and domestic intermodal trains with TOFC and occassional international containers riding on chassis as TOFC.

Sealand was such a big thing on CSX that CSX actually bought Sealand in 1986, BTW....   (Sold it in 2000 or so, I believe).

[davefoxx]

James and Lou,

Thanks so much for the information.  It's almost hard to believe that double stacks have been running for more than thirty years.  I fear that a lot of N scale containers that are available will be 1990s to present, though.  I really do just need to do some research and find out what was out there in the '80s.  I'll have to look into the Morning Sun books.  In the meantime, back to YouTube!   

DFF

[ljudice]

James and Lou,

Thanks so much for the information.  It's almost hard to believe that double stacks have been running for more than thirty years.  I fear that a lot of N scale containers that are available will be 1990s to present, though.  I really do just need to do some research and find out what was out there in the '80s.  I'll have to look into the Morning Sun books.  In the meantime, back to YouTube!   

DFF

Any of those "Big E" productions videos available for your line/territory?   They show EVERY car of every train in a 24 hour period and IMHO are outstanding for seeing what cars were on what trains.  They are insomnia-curing as well, so be sure to drink about 4-5 cups of coffee before watching.

See:   http://www.trainvideos.com/

[Ed Kapuscinski]

And make sure to report back! You're not alone in this quest.

[jagged ben]

It may be the case that the Sealand train was the ONLY stacktrain that would have been seen on the Seaboard before 1986.   As seen in your video.

The Sealand train during those years was handled by BN, Guilford, and NY&SW.   I wasn't even aware it would have made it onto the Seaboard.

As far as containers...
-Buy up as many of the Deluxe grey Seal-Land containers you can find!  It may take years, but they do exist and show up occasionally on eBay.    Deluxe made three versions: corrugated dual-logo panel, and two different reefers, large and small logos.
-Other probably appropriate containers to mix in that were made by Deluxe:  Itel, Genstar, Atlanticargo, Lykes, Ivarran, Gelco, Tex.   Or probably any of the really old original Deluxe productions that came in the plastic bags. (i.e. not the formed plastic bubble container)

Pictures may help:
www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=413530
www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=328175
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=371227



As far as rolling stock, yes, twinstacks are correct, specifically the Sea-Land NYSW ones.
(The Thrall Lo-Pac was around, but would only have been commonly seen on UP-Conrail APL trains.) 

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Lou, were those stack trains heading to Boston or NYC? Conrail didn't finish adding clearance to the NYC lines until mid to late 90's, so anything before then would need to be single stacks on flats.

The Boston Line STILL does not have the clearance to run double stacks, which was one of the main reasons for CSX to eliminate Beacon Park Yard and use Worcester as their New England hub. I remember living by one of the low bridges in the 1990's... trailers (on flat cars) would sometimes bounce into the bridge at night. I don't think it was ever enough to seriously damage the trailers, but the loud "whomp!" was unmistakable.

[ljudice]

Lou, were those stack trains heading to Boston or NYC? Conrail didn't finish adding clearance to the NYC lines until mid to late 90's, so anything before then would need to be single stacks on flats.

The Boston Line STILL does not have the clearance to run double stacks, which was one of the main reasons for CSX to eliminate Beacon Park Yard and use Worcester as their New England hub. I remember living by one of the low bridges in the 1990's... trailers (on flat cars) would sometimes bounce into the bridge at night. I don't think it was ever enough to seriously damage the trailers, but the loud "whomp!" was unmistakable.

Dan, no this was in NJ on the Lehigh Line....   At the time (1988-92) there was no double stack clearance due to the Pattenburg
Tunnel..  D&H/CP had trackage rights on the line and CR deliberately made sure they could not land stack trains in the Northern
NJ Terminal Area. 

Generally, there were 2 MAIL trains,  2-3 TV trains and the old TV60/61 which was international containers (from E-port) to Chicago - each way.

I remember specifically how WB TV3 and TV61 folllowing minutes behind would roar through Hillborough/Neshanic around 7pm every evening....  Often they would have second sections right behind.

In those days EB's would be held at CP Pattenburg for hours - as the NJ yards send trains west.    "ALOI, you're holding at Pattenburg for SEVEN" was not unusual.

Stack trains from NJ used the River Line up to Selkirk and then west.

- Lou

[jagged ben]

I don't know my Conrail lines, but Conrail was running APL double-stacks in 1985.  (I believe they were UP's trains, transferred over.)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=330032

Maybe a few more will help confirm the route.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=33486
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=328500
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=328045
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=328726
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=371226
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=371221

[ljudice]

I don't know my Conrail lines, but Conrail was running APL double-stacks in 1985.  (I believe they were UP's trains, transferred over.)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=330032

That was the ex-Erie main...   It was the first stack route in the NY/NJ/PA area since Erie had NO tunnels to fix.  I believe it used to be a selling point to passengers afraid of going through tunnels....   Spelunkaphobics??? 

[u36b]

This might be helpful:
http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/modelerseras.html
In the eighties CP Ships was quite common, too
I was quite surprised when I visited Hamburg/Germany and saw international containers in the early/mid eighties and found that lots of them had ACI tags:

Micoscale had some very useful and well made sets of late 70s/early 80s containers like http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MD&Product_Code=60-299&Product_Count=&Category_Code Unfortunately, most are not langer made.

Stephan (Modeling SCL until 1982)
... and P. S. did you note Shapeways " BoneValley"  M-5 caboose and MATE ?
 

[davefoxx]

... and P. S. did you note Shapeways " BoneValley"  M-5 caboose and MATE ?

WHAT?????????!!!!!!!!!  I'll be back.