Author Topic: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars  (Read 1419 times)

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The Beer Baron

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AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« on: January 29, 2014, 09:36:13 PM »
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My apologies if this has been covered already, but I did do a search on the subject first, google included. I did find this thread, which contained this link. Having read through it all, I did not find a suitable match based on the AAR descriptions. In fact, plug doors aren't even mentioned.

Does anyone have a clue? I'm all out.
Drew
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The Inverness and Richmond Railway

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wazzou

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 09:42:19 PM »
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Are you asking about mechanical designations like XM or XML or actual railroad AAR codes?

« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 09:49:31 PM by wazzou »
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wcfn100

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 12:07:22 AM »
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Well first, its flush door not plug door. 

I looked at the NP cars because those are the most numerous combination door boxcars I know about and the AAR mechanical designation isn't anything different than a normal box car - XM or XML.

Jason

The Beer Baron

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 09:16:44 AM »
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Are you asking about mechanical designations like XM or XML...
Yes, the mechanical designation.

Well first, its flush door not plug door.
Really? That's the first I've heard of it. I assumed it was called a plug door because it effectively "plugged" the opening of the car, thus rendering it weather tight, while a standard 6' door does not.

Quote from: wcfn100
I looked at the NP cars because those are the most numerous combination door boxcars I know about and the AAR mechanical designation isn't anything different than a normal box car - XM or XML.

Canadian Pacific also had a number of combination-door boxes, and I managed to find this one online, and it clearly reiterates what you're saying. XM it is then. Thanks for the help gentlemen.
Drew
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Robbman

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 06:43:03 PM »
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Well first, its flush door not plug door. 
Jason

It's both... though plug is much more commonly used.

Youngstown called them flush, sometimes (I've yet to find a rhyme or reason on that one).  I.e, Double Sliding Flush Gear-Operated Doors.  The car builders though... called them out as plug doors (i.e, P-S called out the aforementioned doors as 'Aluminum Double Plug Doors' on their drawings)

wcfn100

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 07:10:27 PM »
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It's both... though plug is much more commonly used.

Youngstown called them flush, sometimes (I've yet to find a rhyme or reason on that one).  I.e, Double Sliding Flush Gear-Operated Doors.  The car builders though... called them out as plug doors (i.e, P-S called out the aforementioned doors as 'Aluminum Double Plug Doors' on their drawings)

Okay, I know the ORER refers to them as flush on the NP cars and I have seen the Youngstown ads that say flush as well.  I'll have to look closer at other manufacturers.  I have also heard plug in regards to the double plug cars.  I guess the cars I've been looking at the most say sliding flush.

pre-edit:

- In the Cyclopedia they basically says the two descriptions are interchangeable. I can live with that.

Thanks Robb.

Jason

nkalanaga

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 01:12:36 AM »
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I think the reason the ORER calls them "flush doors" is because it's aimed at shippers.  They wouldn't care what the door looked like, or how it worked, but rather what the inside of the car was like.  A closed plug door sits flush with the inner wall, rather than leaving a hole where cargo can shift, get stuck, or possibly be damaged by the edge of the opening.
N Kalanaga
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wcfn100

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 01:25:28 AM »
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I think the reason the ORER calls them "flush doors" is because it's aimed at shippers. 

Or it could be because NP called them flush doors on their equipment diagrams (which they did).

I'm ready to believe that the terms are completely interchangeable, but I am interested in how that happened.  My guess is a builder coined a new term for the same thing, but a small part of me wants to think there's some subtle difference between the two that I can search for the next 20 years.

In the case of the NP combination door cars, I think one of the points of these cars was that even though you could have a 14' opening for easier loading, they could still be used in traditional grain loading with the 6' door.  So the 'flush' door was to act more like a wall that was flush to the rest of the inside when not in use.  This would be opposed to maybe an insulated car where the door did act as a 'plug'.

Just some speculation on my part.

Jason
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 01:35:19 AM by wcfn100 »

nkalanaga

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 04:03:56 AM »
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Jason:  At least in the case of the NP you may be right, and there are likely multiple reasons for the names. 

You also hit on the real reason these cars were so common with Midwest and Northwest railroads - the grain business.  Double sliding doors would have been cheaper, and just as useful to most customers, but then the car couldn't haul grain.  The NP, Burlington, and maybe other roads, went further.  They built double plug door cars with a small hinged door in the top of the main door.  Wheat could be loaded through that without needing any type of grain door.  By the time they were doing that covered hoppers were reaching practical sizes for grain, and we all know how that turned out.
N Kalanaga
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Robbman

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 09:52:42 PM »
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My guess is a builder coined a new term for the same thing, but a small part of me wants to think there's some subtle difference between the two that I can search for the next 20 years.


Just for you, I dug around through my shtuff (dont tell Craig... I should be working, not perusing drawings that I'll never use)... P-S did indeed call the doors that they built themselves 'plug' doors.

The Beer Baron

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Re: AAR Car Code for Combo-door box cars
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2014, 07:50:34 PM »
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In the case of the NP combination door cars, I think one of the points of these cars was that even though you could have a 14' opening for easier loading, they could still be used in traditional grain loading with the 6' door.  So the 'flush' door was to act more like a wall that was flush to the rest of the inside when not in use.  This would be opposed to maybe an insulated car where the door did act as a 'plug'.

Just some speculation on my part.

Jason

..and this is precisely reason I assumed these cars would have an AAR code longer than just XM. It's my understanding that CN and CP used these cars in lumber service during the grain off-season.

P-S did indeed call the doors that they built themselves 'plug' doors.
Youngstown called them flush, sometimes (I've yet to find a rhyme or reason on that one).  I.e, Double Sliding Flush Gear-Operated Doors.

P-S and Youngstown manufactured virtually the same door under different names? My money is on a Registered Trademark of one or both.
Drew
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The Inverness and Richmond Railway

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green