My etched pipe hangers finally arrived

[Lemosteam]

Thanks Jason, I'll PM you.   

Let me know how you end up polishing them...

[pnolan48]

It looked to me that the "offset" holes were actually just a perspective effect--an .008 hole in .01 brass is deeper than it is wide.

[peteski]

Petski, the reason I asked about the SS is mainly for the linkage and the single stachions.  The T1 and streamlined K4 had stainless or chrome handrails (not sure).  Does any body think the holes would remain if i sent the sheet out for chrome plating?

That probably depends on who does the plating.  If you gave them to a company that plates car bumpers then I suspect you would end up with shiny blobs with no holes (the initial layers of copper and nickel would probably obliterate the holes, even before the chrome is deposited).

But if you sent them out to some company that works with precision plating for electronic and aerospace industries, then the holes might stay open. But the plating would reduce their inside diameter.  Etching them from nickel-silver is a more viable alternative.  It can be polished quite well.

[mmagliaro]

It looked to me that the "offset" holes were actually just a perspective effect--an .008 hole in .01 brass is deeper than it is wide.

It is.  There isn't an offset problem.  But on a some of the sheets, on some of the holes, the etch didn't
quite open up the hole to its full size, and it's hard to get a .008" wire through, or impossible, unless you
ream the hole open a little.  It only takes a few seconds, and it's easy to do.  But I'm not sending out any
that are like that.  I'm spot-checking every one I send with a .008" wire, by poking it through holes in
various places around the fret.  (No, I'm not going to stick a wire into every one of the hundreds of holes.   But
the problem occurs in "regions" of the etch.  It's not a case where one hole out of nowhere is closed up.
There tends to be a row along one edge that has the problem, with the rest of the sheet being perfectly fine.)

[pnolan48]

As I understand it, the etch (even from both sides) naturally tapers toward the center. I have commissioned PE brass for hangers for the movable nets around helicopter pads, and then the matching supports for the nets, on my N scale ships. The hangers were designed with a tab for a 90 degree bend to mount on the hull. How much simpler and more secure it would have been just to cut a little slot for each hanger! DOH! I'm making only eight of these ships (the 210' USCG Reliance-class) mostly because of the difficulties with the nets. I'd given up on them being movable, but I may have to try again. So thanks for the insights you've given me for mounting them!

I've found the difference between .007 and .008 thickness to be considerable for stiffness in brass. I use .008. The netting is .005 because it is chain-link size, but cannot be structural in any way.

[peteski]

As I understand it, the etch (even from both sides) naturally tapers toward the center.

That's correct. It is called "undercut".

More info is on the PPD page.

[timwatson]

These are stellar Max! really great work.

[mmagliaro]

That's correct. It is called "undercut".

More info is on the PPD page.

Peteski's pic is spot on.  Yes, that's how it works, it etches in from both sides.
And the problem is that it has to make through .010" of metal, and while it's burning it's way toward
the center, it also starts burning sideways, enlarging the hole and burning away some of the metal
you want to keep.  So when lines and holes are smaller than .010", you have to "game it", making your lines
a little thicker, and your hole a little smaller, than you want, so that with this unwanted sideways etching,
you end up with something close to what you wanted.

[pnolan48]

I've never done photo-etching myself, so when I use a phrase such as "As I understand it. . ." I am referring to diagrams such as those provided by PPD, quoted in previous posts, and also the understanding I've gained over the past years with producing items such as the life guard netting on USN destroyers and USCG cutters. PPD has worked with me to produce meshes so fine that they are are semi-transparent. PPD has been a joy to work with, always willing to consult and work with me to produce what I wanted.

[Cajonpassfan]

First, I'll answer questions:

WHAT YOU GET:
The sheet in the photo is exactly what you will get.

There are
50 5-hole  hangers
80 4-hole
50 3-hole
40 2-hole
30 1-hole (and these can also be used as railing stanchions.

42 "dogbone" valve gear linkages

The hangers are designed for .008" wire.   If you try to use .010", it will not fit.  You can twirl the sharp
point of an Xacto blade in the holes and then sneak a .010" wire through there, but .008" is a lot easier
to work with.  Plus, it's a lot more in scale.

It is etched on .010" thick brass

ATTACHING:
Peteski (and all):
The attachment method is exactly the same as on Loren's.  There is a little L-shape at the top of the hanger.
With a jewelers saw or Xacto blade, I cut a tiny notch into the edge of the walkway, then push
the little "L" into that notch, and the apply whatever glue of choice you want to use.  Personally,
I use a drop of ACC just to fix it in place so it won't move around.  When that is hard, I use a drop
of JB Weld or other tough 2-part epoxy from behind, up under the walkway, where you won't see it.

If it's a brass walkway and you've got the chops, soldering is by far the best way to go.  Cut a tiny notch
into the walkway, hold the hanger with some serrated mini pliers or tweezers (so it doesnt' go "sproinging" out
of the tweezers into outer space), use a drop of flux, and then you can solder them in.   But on
a plastic walkway, like the example I show in the photo, glue is pretty much the only way.

I'm not going to kid anybody.  This is definitely a serious craftsman level part.  They are not easy to
put on if you are not used to doing very very fine, delicate modeling work.  Heck, even if you are,
they take time.   It probably took me 20 minutes or more to get the 3 into place that you see in the
demo photo, just fussing to get them straight, get a good glue bond, etc.

PRICE:
Each sheet is 2" x 3", and again, it's exactly the sheet you see in the photos.
They are $20, free shipping.   At that price, I might have a hope of recouping my costs on this.
(If I could run 3,4,5 big sheets and sell hundreds of these, the cost would be lower, but
that is very unlikely!)

Mine are on the way, hopefully. At 2.4 cents a hole, I think I'm getting a deal...
Good luck with recouping your costs, not even counting your trouble Max. Thanks a lot for making these available.
Otto K.

[mmagliaro]

Mine are on the way, hopefully. At 2.4 cents a hole, I think I'm getting a deal...
Good luck with recouping your costs, not even counting your trouble Max. Thanks a lot for making these available.
Otto K.

They are on the way, Otto.   As of today, all the ones that have been purchased have been mailed out.

If anybody knows how to get a hold of towl1996, please poke him.  He sent me a payment for a fret of
hangers, but did not include any mailing address, so I have no way to send it to him.

I have sent a couple of emails and PMs to no avail.

[peteski]

I received the photoetched fret. Thanks Max!

The etching is excellent. The appearance of the misalignment in the top and bottom etching was simply due to the way the photo was taken (as I was told).  Very useful parts, and in pretty sizable quantity.

I thought it would be useful to compare Max's version to the hangers made by Loren (for Jason).
Max's version is on the left.


Loren's hangers are etched from 0.008" brass while Max used 0.010"  I also prefer Loren's larger mounting tab (as I pointed that out few posts ago).  Loren's hangers will accept 0.011" wire without reaming while Max's are a bit smaller. I think that both versions are very useful for detailing steam locos, and Max's $20 fret will probably supply me enough hangers and other parts for my lifetime of modeling.

[mmagliaro]

Thanks, Peteski.
I actually had a few that came out more like Loren's in my test etchings, but I decided to
go with sturdier ones with smaller holes.   I didn't realize his were on .008".  I thought they
were .010"   Knowing that, I will probably do them in .008" if I ever etch any more.
It makes it easier to get bigger holes and thinner frames when the metal is thinner.

[Chris333]

Mine showed up today. Dang they are small, if you can get them etched you can do anything!

Thanks for making them.