How to model PRR Snapper(Helper) operations in N

[CodyO]

I want to model snapper(Helper) operations on my layout when my helix is built
I'm wondering what kind of Steam/Diesel engines PRR normally used
This will be a 1.5% grade helix and I do tend to run long freight trains

What kind of facilities would be at the top of the grade? The bottom?

I'm thinking it could possibly be as simple as a siding before the Helix starts Climbing which I can fit 1-2 engines on with maybe a water spout and small coal tower
I have my main yard right next to the helix so I'm thinking it might just need to be a siding for engines to wait

Thanks for the help in advance

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Helper ops in a helix will be, well, interesting... (and by interesting, I mean fraught with annoyances).

Operating a helper means keeping a close eye on the entire train, watching where the slack is, carefully modulating the throttle, etc... that's going to be really tough in a helix.

Now, with that out of the way... It depends on era. Steam or diesel. Steam is much more fun, but getting the correct motive power will be tough. The iconic PRR snapper was the I1sa.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=245737

This video is fun:

/>
At the minimum, you'll need a helper base. If you're near a major facility, you'll probably just need a pocket track for the helper locomotives to hang out on, a phone box (for communications with the dispatcher), and probably a water plug. Take a look for vintage pictures of the area around "Slope" in Altoona (I'm sure there were other locations, but that springs to mind). If you're not near a major servicing location, you'll also need coal, sand, ash pits, and all the other stuff that made steam so expensive compared to diesels.

With diesels, it's a bit easier. In the transition era, you'd probably have the same facilities lingering on (but out of use). I believe, in the beginning, PRR used all sorts of stuff early on. I'd look for GP7s, 9s and Fs. Maybe RS3s and 11s.

[ljudice]

Wow - cool video...  Those 2-10-0's look like they would use half their tractive effort just to move those massive tenders!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I never really liked those coast to coast tenders (honestly, I prefer the as-built look on most PRR steam), but they are impressive.

Builder's photo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PRR_I1s_4300.jpg

[ljudice]

That looks more like a helper, as it would be lingering around in a really small geographic area, I would presume.

[strummer]

I never really liked those coast to coast tenders (honestly, I prefer the as-built look on most PRR steam), but they are impressive.

I'm inclined to agree with you, Ed, (though the M1 looks good with any size tender, I think.)

I still have a couple of Penn Line and Bowser engines from my HO days, and I have the Decapod connected to the small tender; to me, it just looks more "balanced"

Happy Holidays.

Mark in Oregon

[Cajonpassfan]

Cody, I would so recommend you do not run your pushers through a helix.... If you have to have a helix, I would put the helper grade elsewhere, maybe 2%.
Pushers are so much fun, but only when you can see them.
Otto

[mark dance]

I would agree on the helix/helper point but my experience and concern is from an operator not a mechanical point of view. 

Once per ops session we push up through a helix (~25 car westbound train of 2 bay hoppers; independent head end and pusher operators; 3 lead locos and 2 pushers;  2 turn helix with ~3% grade).  While we have never had a derailment while pushing in the helix there is a huge urge for crews to fiddle with their engine speeds and their anxiety is palpable during those 2 minutes while they are waiting for the train to emerge.  There is enough distance before entering the helix for crews to match their engine speeds before it disappears.  The advice from the superintendent is just to wait until the train emerges and they can see it and the slack location before changing *anything*.

Interestingly we also push westbound trains but not through a helix and the train is visible the whole time.  Here the operators are free to adjust their engine speeds. On the Eastbounds we *have* had derailments due to errors between the operators!  Go figure.

md

[eric220]

Do you just want to model the ops, or are you thinking that you'll need the extra power to make it up the grade? If it's just for show, one thought would be to get a Minitrix I1s-almost, do the requisite cosmetic upgrades, and remove the drive to make a dummy. You could just couple that on the back and get the appearance of a snapper without worrying about the operational problems.

[CodyO]

Thanks for the replies guys

I don`t think my trains will need help in the helix so I`m more doing it for show so I like erics idea of dummying a 2-10-0 and just coupling it onto to the ends of trains to make it look like its helping trains up the helix

The main thing I was worried about was a pusher pushing too hard and derailing my trains on there way up

I could model it on the upper deck though push my grade from 2-3% and Ill end up with a 3" climb and the whole train will be in view at all times

[keystonecrossings]

West of Altoona (Horseshoe Curve), J1's were common helpers, as were I1 Decs. Once the Centipedes fell out of favor in passenger service, they were regeared and reclassed as BH50 helpers (in pairs). They also had five GP7's dedicated as passenger helpers (they pulled from the front).

[Bob Bufkin]

PRR also had F units built for helper service.  They were later regeared for regular service.

[keystonecrossings]

PRR also had F units built for helper service.  They were later regeared for regular service.

Ah, yes, how did I not mention them! F3's in ABA sets.

[CodyO]

Guess I found a use for my A-B-B set of F7s!

Or the GPs I have yet to buy

Thanks again guys!