decals without gloss

[kalbert]

I might need to re-learn how to turn the pressure down on my el-cheapo harbor freight compressor =\

Funny... I've been trying to figure out how to get more pressure out of my el-cheapo harbor freight compressor! 8 is about all she'll do, and as soon as you pull the trigger it is an unpredictable 6-8 pulse!

I've had the same trouble as you with MM Gloss Black Acryl. I don't know what the deal is but we must be doing it wrong. The same method used with any other MM paint has always yielded good results (for me anyway). I have had good luck using their flat black, just not the gloss for whatever reason. I can't make it stick, even when brushing on, and it never has a glossy finish on it's own. Semi-gloss at best.. You could possibly try using flat black, and then if there is concern of decals not sticking/looking right a dunk in a vat of Future will smooth the surface out like a mirror and decals would certainly stick to that.

In my experience, a healty dose of MicoSol will mush a decal down to a gravel road, but other's mileage may vary, and in the end you have to try new things and do what works for you. Some people might swear by a method that you swear at.

[LV LOU]

Disagree all you want, but it doesn't carry much cred without some examples of your results.

+1. Properly treating the decal is the key, IMO. This is a custom decal (notorious for being harder to work with than typical commercial decals) applied over flat paint. After a liberal application of Micro-Sol, it was sealed with clear flat finish. Decal is crappy, edges may be slightly visible, but there is no silvering.



I would say there is ample evidence this is not a requirement.

David,I found a little trick when using custom decals.Seems custom decal sheets are a little lacking in the glue department.I save the cut off edges from Microscale decal sheets.When I use a custom made set,I trim as close to the decal as possible to get rid of the usually crappy edge,then I wet it,and slide it onto a pre wetted piece of the Microscale paper..Kinda puts a nice,useable deposit of better schmutz on it..

[LV LOU]

I sometimes wonder why I even bother to post responses here on this forum.  The original question was about applying decals over gloss and a comment was made that you absolutely have to do so.  A few people indicated that you don't have to.  Somebody asked for photos of that.  Photos were provided.  Now photos are criticized for the appearance of decal film and the alleged thickness of paint.  I could care less what anybody else does with their models.  I am not going to tell you that your method is wrong and that your model is bad.  If you ask what to do, I will tell you what I do.  If you want to criticize my method, my work and my photos that is your choice but does it really add anything of value to the discussion?  Did you show any of us any of your work since it is obviously perfect and far superior to anything that anybody else has posted?   Did your critique of my work help the original poster figure out what he is having a hard time with?  No to all of the above. 

And for the record, this U-boat does not have decal film visible.  The visible decal film that was criticized on the NW2 was due to drybrushing the model to fade the paint slightly.  Drybrushing highlights raised surfaces such as decal film regardless of whether or not gloss paint is below the decal film. 

Scott Lupia

Scott,I could get into a long,drawn out reply,but all I can say is,+1,no pics,your opinion is worthless,nitpicking OTHER things but the original point does nothing to advance your opinion,and,oh yeah,NICE U-boat!!!

[FEC Railway]

so how do I get my paint to not dry before hitting the surface of the model?

[wcfn100]

I did miss the rivet line under the dimensional data.  I think I went back and fixed that but I'm not sure.

Here's a link to the original file, knock yourselves out.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tBGWNCniKmc/T0sZrwu_OlI/AAAAAAAAGwQ/0UFozOGpXSA/s0/DSC_0067.JPG

Jason

[LV LOU]

 FEC,basically,shoot closer to the model,shoot slower,and look at the paint as it hits the surface..Start at one side,off the model,and follow through to the other side.Speed is everything.Too slow,you get heavy buildup,too fast,you get what you have there.It should slowly build as a wet,glossy sheet.AS you shoot,you'll actually see the paint transituon as you shoot it from a dry mess to a nice,wet coat as the paint goes on.That's where you want to be..Even flat colors should be glossy when you put it on.You need to "read" the paint.Since you're inexperienced,follow the thinning directions for the particular paint you're using..And,if the paint looks heavy when you first shoot it,don't panic.It will dry much thinner..

[wcfn100]

so how do I get my paint to not dry before hitting the surface of the model?

You're dealing with four things.

Consistency of the paint, the air pressure,  the distance from the model that you spray, and the size of the needle you are using (if you have a choice).

There's no hard rules on any of these and a change in one can make a change in the other.

I'm my experience (sorry I don't have a picture of me actually spraying to prove I do it  ) this is what I do -

1.  I try to get my paint to the consistency of Whole Milk.
2.  I spray around 18 psi. +- 2 psi depending on how the paint is coming out.
3. I tend to spray around 6" from the model.
4. I use the largest needle that came with my Paasche VL.

I also strain my paint and never shake it to mix always stir.

I've been able to spray with smaller needles but it tends to have more clogging.  But that's not to say that thinning the paint a bit more wouldn't help that.


Jason

[bbussey]

... I did miss the rivet line under the dimensional data.  I think I went back and fixed that but I'm not sure.

Which pretty much refutes your position and shows that the type of base paint has nothing to do with making sure the decal is set properly.

[wcfn100]

Which pretty much refutes your position and shows that the type of base paint has nothing to do with making sure the decal is set properly.

Nah, just missed it.

If you read back, my 'position' was that gloss coat doesn't make it harder to hide decal lines.

Jason

[sizemore]

Lower your pressure to 20lbs, thin the paint properly, and check your needle. The trick I found with gloss is that I was making a few passes over the same area before making a pass over the next area, overlap alot. As mentioned previously, you want it to look wet. You'll see the paint gel forming a glossy surface as you continue onto another pass of unpainted model.

HTH,
The S.

[bbussey]

Nah, just missed it.
If you read back, my 'position' was that gloss coat doesn't make it harder to hide decal lines.

Your position was that it's better to use gloss over flat as a base.  Your photo shows that it's the setting of the decal that makes the difference, not the base coat underneath (gloss in this case).  Therefore, your position is refuted.

[LV LOU]

I did miss the rivet line under the dimensional data.  I think I went back and fixed that but I'm not sure.

Here's a link to the original file, knock yourselves out.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tBGWNCniKmc/T0sZrwu_OlI/AAAAAAAAGwQ/0UFozOGpXSA/s0/DSC_0067.JPG

Jason

Nice work,but sorry,pretty poor example to show your point.The dimensional data is small,pretty easy to hide the edges,and the square herald could be trimmed right to the edge..

[wcfn100]

Maybe I should have been a surgeon.

Jason

[sizemore]

Everyone here has their own choice for paint, flat or gloss. Everyone here has their own methods which have shown some pretty good results using different methods.

You clowns are doing nothing but quibbling, if you're not helping FEC understand where he went wrong or how he can improve, zip your keyboards and move on. Lets keep this on point to help this guy increase his skills, understand his tools and produce better models.

Thanks Guys,
The S.