Official Railway Equipment Register and Boxcar Ratios?

[Kisatchie]

I'd like to find out what the ratio of 50' boxcars to 60' boxcars was in 1970-71 for US railroads. Just how hard would it be to figure out using the ORER? Any guesses? Helpful hints?


Hmm... first, buy a copy
of the ORER...

[Dave Schneider]

This would be hard to do with an ORER. For example, the 1969 version has something like 1200 pages of listings. Formatting changes from year to year, but this one breaks down total boxcars, automobile cars and refrigerator cars for each railroad (the Milwaukee Road had 20111 for example) but then you would still have to go line by line and tabulate the numbers. A quick glance at the MR shows maybe a couple hundred 60-footers. Not an impossible task, but not one that I have any interest in doing. I bought the 1969 version on eBay from someone who scanned the pages. They are just flat scans (pdfs) and not tabular data. The price was reasonable, like $20 or so.

Best wishes, Dave

[Kisatchie]

I was afraid that's what would be required. I'm trying to work out how many cars I'll need for my dream layout. Looks like I'll have to wing it.


Hmm... it'll take some
pretty big wings to get
Kiz off the ground...

[PGE_Modeller]

I'd like to find out what the ratio of 50' boxcars to 60' boxcars was in 1970-71 for US railroads. Just how hard would it be to figure out using the ORER? Any guesses? Helpful hints?

I can't help for the 1970-71 period, but a number of years ago I did such a study based on the January 1953 ORER for a similar  reason - to establish the freight car mix for my own layout.  I didn't separate cars out by length but did tabulate the total number of box, gondola, hopper, flat, covered hopper, refrigerator, stock, tank, and other revenue freight cars (express refrigerators not included) for every railroad listed in that issue of the ORER.  I have long since lost the Excel file but, just a couple of days ago, came across the hard copy printout.  If anyone would like a PDF scan of the 6 pages, send me either a direct e-mail, greg_kennelly@alumni.sfu.ca, or a PM.

Incidentally, just recently, I looked at the CPR box cars (52431 total) which were 66% of the total CPR revenue freight car fleet in the same (January 1953) ORER and the distribution was as follows:

36' Fowler (Dominion) cars           31%
40' Minibox (8'-7" IH)                   17%
40' 1937 AAR (10'-0" IH)              18%
40' 1944 AAR (10'-6" IH)              25%
Miscellaneous                                9%
(Automobile and Horse cars are NOT included and it is interesting to note that, in January 1953, the CPR had NO 50' box cars)

Cheers,

[bbussey]

Since I have nearly all the New Haven books for the era I'm modeling, what I did was tally all the cars in all the photos by car class and railroad to get a rough ratio ... which ended up being close to the rough ratios I already had.  Perhaps that is a better way to go, given that the ORER doesn't show traffic patterns of equipment.

That said, it would not be that difficult to approximate.  You know roughly what the ratios are of the car types.  You know which roads interfaced directly and indirectly with your home road.  You could put a roster together just on that.  For New Haven circa 1956, I use 40% NH; 15% PRR; 20% direct interchange roads (B&A, BM, CNJ, CP, CV, ERIE, LHR, LNE, LV, NYC); 15% indirect interchange roads (ARLX, B&O, BAR, CN, D&H, FGE, MEC, R, VTR, WCLX); and 10% other roads (ATSF, UP, etcetera).  On equipment ratios, I have boxcars (35%); reefers (18%); open hoppers (16%); tankcars (10%); flatcars (6%); gondolas (6%); covered hoppers (5%);  stockcars (1%); and non-revenue equipment (4%).  The tricky part is merging those two ratio tables together, but it can be done.

[Dave Schneider]

Kiz,

The other thing to keep in mind is that there is no right answer. First of all, nobody but an insufferable pain in the butt would do a quick scan of the layout, whip out a calculator, and declare your ratios to be incorrect. If that happens, show the person the door, no questions asked.  What matters on your railroad is what industries are served and what kind of through traffic is present (if any). If you have the auto industry represented or running through, you might need a higher proportion of  60 footers than if you model a prairie grain line or a coal mining region.

To paraphrase Lee (since I can't remember the exact quote), you are building an operating model railroad, not a museum diorama on which there will be a test later. If you want it to look plausible, model the ordinary, not the exceptional (to paraphrase Ed). If it still bothers you, have a beer and relax...to paraphrase most of the rest of us!

Best wishes, Dave

[Kisatchie]

...If it still bothers you, have a beer and relax...to paraphrase most of the rest of us!

I'm on Bipolar disorder medications... no beer for me


Hmm... you should see
Kiz's coffee bill...

[randgust]

I think its a useful ratio on a small railroad, and the smaller the railroad the easier it is to look up.  I have a January 1975 ORER, well-worn.    If you're looking at a particular shortline or regional, it's an eye-opener.  Wellsville, Addison & Galeton had HOW MANY outside-braced boxcars?   Whoa.

On the bigger railroads, you can get a FLAVOR, but depending on where you are at and what's being moved, the averages get pretty skewed.   ATSF for instance, only had 100 100-ton unit train coal hoppers in 1972, but that one train moved through my area about every third day one way or the other.   The main line saw lots of reefer moves, but the branches sure didn't.  My area had a cinder pit, used old obsolete 50-ton hoppers for intrastate shipments. 

And, of course, you'll completely miss them mix of private-owner tanks, TTX, RBOX, covered ___X cars, etc. that became more and more common.

I'm an addict of book and calendar photos, I'm checking out entire trains - percentage of home road cars, and particularly - color.  I think that's one of the areas that get missed a LOT.  Modelers tend to have way too many 'cool and interesting' cars and not enough 'nondescript brown and black' that blend in, and provide the contrast for other cars TO stand out.     I challenge myself by attempting to date photos by simply studying the train details, it's a great test.   You get a feel for color, cars, weathering, everything.

Industry magazines of a period - and particularly the Association of American Railroads (AAR) - regularly publicized statistics on car types.  If you look on Ebay you'll see old railroad promotional books, and most have some rather mind-boggling statistics on freight car types.  And you can see that boxcar populations never really 'crashed' until about 1980.

[Rossford Yard]

I think knowing the approximate ratios of your era helps establish the right general look, so its a worthwhile effort.  Just, as noted, don't obsess too much!  After all, at any one locale modeled, the industry mix might skew that national ratio a bit, no?

Get it close, and your story (for those nitpickers of such things) is the "XXX" traffic was particularly heavy (or weak) that week in 1971.....

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Randy makes an incredibly important point.

If you're looking at a more modern era, trains were typically programmed with various types of traffic, so even though there might be a bunch of covered hoppers moving along the CR Pittsburgh Line (ie, Horseshoe Curve), you'd more likely find them in a train that originated (or had a block that originated) on the Chemical Coast or in NJ, while something like MOPI (Morrisville to Pittsburgh) would probably have more steel traffic.

If, for example, you were only modeling the Morrisville Line (the former PRR Trenton cutoff that linked Morrisville itself where there's a steel mill, and the line to the west), steel traffic would be disproportionately represented.

Therefore, if you want to be accurate, pick an individua train (or more) to study that you know traversed the area you're modeling (like Randy has).