staging yard track spacing

[asciibaron]

what would be a good track spacing for a "hidden" staging yard.  is 1.5" too close?  should i go to 2 inches?

[davefoxx]

I would say for a hidden staging yard, where esthetics are not as much a concern, going to 2" would be a good idea. On the yard on my last layout, my "exposed" yard had 1.5" track centers, which looks better, but makes it tough to get big fingers in between the cars for rerailing and the like.  Try setting up some temporary track to see what you prefer.

DFF

[Ian MacMillan]

I have mine planned for 2.25" plenty of room to man hand grab items.


...now if I could only get man hands...someday

[wm3798]

Mine are at 1.5, but I wanted to get everything as close to the aisle as possible.  It can be a little dicey if some moron wrecks his train below decks, but I'm trying to take notes as to who does and doesn't get a throttle...





I've also found that on those rare occasions when something does go ka-boing, it's easy enough to just pull the other trains out of the way to clear the spill.

Lee

[asciibaron]

i guess i won't be getting a throttle again

i might go for 1.75" spacing.  i'll play around with it - the only autoracks i'll have are open top and only a 6 or 8 of them total.  with an 8" clearance i should have no problem getting in and fixing things.  i'm also planning on having rerailers at both ends of the staging tracks.  once the book case gets moved tonight, the other section for the staging level can be installed and real planning be started.

[asciibaron]

i was playing around with the yard spacing and trying to sort out what length tracks i would need and how to really fit them in my space.  i figure a typical 12 car train with two typical locomotives and a caboose runs around 4.5 feet long.  add in some fudge room and i'm at 5.0 feet and with that i have established the length of the passing sidings.

the next question is "how many staging tracks do i think i need" and that is easily answered, sort of.  if i plan to have two through freights in each direction and two locals plus two coal trains, that's eight trains per operating session, but how many will need to be staged.  the four through freights and the two coal trains must be staged, so the minimum number is 6 tracks.  now to figure out what is needed for the local.  since the local is an out and back that makes a run around move at the location represented by the staging, i really only need one track.  

of course proper planning mandates i add in more staging than is needed, cause you know it will be needed, i figure i should be fine with nine tracks of staging.  but do i really need that many?  

there is a wrinkle that needs ironed out and thus the reason my staging is semi-visible and easily accessed.  the power was shared among the L&HR trains.  a train to Maybrook dropped it's consist, put the caboose on a cut of cars and then brought that back west to Bethlehem making set outs as required. so now my staging becomes a fiddle yard.  i still need nine tracks, but i need to make it easy to operate.  so instead of having a pyramid shaped yard, it will be a parallelogram - this makes working the yard much easier.

thanks for following along my rambling though process.  maybe it will shed some light on why my layout is designed the way it is, and how i'm attacking the operating plan of a bridge route.

i pretty sure i'll have all tracks through, but there is some appeal to having some stub ended tracks to increase the storage.

[wm3798]

Hmmm.  If there's any way to do it, I'd put the fiddle yard up on top somewhere.  Staging should be staging.  Once you have to start classifying cars, you'll end up killing 2-3 tracks in the yard.

I like the way mine works...  Staging>>Yard>>Layout>>Yard>>Staging.  That allows me to run the train out, untouched since last session, then do my set outs/pick ups in the live yard, then send the train forth onto glory.  While it's running laps on the layout, I can then shift the cars in the yard to set up for the next train due to run through.

Another consideration...  Are you planning to run pure point to point?  Or will the staging provide for a through loop for those times when you just want some mind numbing roundy roundy?  If the latter is the case, you'll have to provide for either an extra track to stay clear, or some sort of run around for your loop.

Lee

[asciibaron]

Hmmm.  If there's any way to do it, I'd put the fiddle yard up on top somewhere.  Staging should be staging.  Once you have to start classifying cars, you'll end up killing 2-3 tracks in the yard.

no classifying - just a run around move with the power and a grabbing of the caboose.  all trains will be staged, just missing the power and caboose.

Another consideration...  Are you planning to run pure point to point?  Or will the staging provide for a through loop for those times when you just want some mind numbing roundy roundy?  If the latter is the case, you'll have to provide for either an extra track to stay clear, or some sort of run around for your loop.

i am not counting the main and passing siding in with the staging tracks.  the layout will be operated as a point to point, but can be used as a roundy round for open houses or chillin with a brew.

[wm3798]

So your locals will be running the same cars all the time?  No set outs from the thru traffic for local distribution?  The cars from the local industries aren't added to thru trains so they can "leave the layout?"

So you're creating a checkers game when a chess match would be more interesting....

Lee

[asciibaron]

So your locals will be running the same cars all the time?  No set outs from the thru traffic for local distribution?  The cars from the local industries aren't added to thru trains so they can "leave the layout?"

here's a track diagram of the layout:



the way the L&HR worked was rather simple - the crews worked jobs, and those jobs handled at least two trains a day.  a typical run goes like this:

a road crew is assigned Shuttle One.  they start with AO-4 at Hudson Yard (staging) and head east toward Maybrook (staging).  the train stops in Warwick and sets out a few and picks up a few.  once in Maybrook, the cars are dropped for the NH and the power is coupled against a cut the NH crews have assembled.  this is the OA-3 and once the caboose is attached from the AO-4, the Shuttle One crew takes this train west to Hudson dropping off and picking up in Warwick if required.

one crew just used 3 locos and one caboose to move two trains over the line.  the L&HR worked very hard to keep the through freights moving over the railroad as quickly as possible to protect the connections at either end.  

the locals worked the same way except they worked the local sidings from each end meeting in Warwick and then heading back where they came from.


 

[asciibaron]

with the above in mind, i have come up with this plan for staging - basically 2 stub end yards with run around tracks.  the main cuts through to enable a continuous run for the "fun runs" with the kids.  



the only problem i foresee is uncoupling consists from the locos with the 4 tracks of staging in the front.

[wm3798]

That does sound more interesting than I was imagining.  I think your staging set up is workable, and I can see how it will work (I think).  Train arrives from left, pulls into middle thru track, engine runs around, plucks caboose from end, pulls train back out of A/D track, attaches caboose to former front of train, then pushes back into staging track ready roll out in the opposite direction next time.... 

Coal could be set up on thru staging tracks, since loads will always be moving in one direction, and empties the other.  One train set could represent several movements during a session... Oops!  Now you need two more thru staging tracks!

Lee

[asciibaron]

Coal could be set up on thru staging tracks, since loads will always be moving in one direction, and empties the other.  One train set could represent several movements during a session... Oops!  Now you need two more thru staging tracks!

the coal is run only once per session - alternating between loads and empties.

[wm3798]

So is it one train and you have to turn it and pull the loads, or are you going to have two sets?
L

[asciibaron]

So is it one train and you have to turn it and pull the loads, or are you going to have two sets?

one loaded train, one MTY train - same power.  i have added another westward staging stub ended track. that leaves 2 empty thru staging tracks, the main, and passing siding clear.  that way i can add a PRR run thru or EL excursion to the mix.  there will be a sliding drawer under the staging yard with various rolling stock and power.  i'm pleased with it, now i just have to see how much of a pain it is uncoupling.  i'll most likely have magnets on the stub tracks.