On30 and SP narrow gauge

[tom mann]

http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym_owens_bd.htm

more:

http://www.narrowgauge.net/spng-hst.htm
http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/ca/owenyo.html
http://www.girr.org/girr/relics/spng/spng.html
http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/page50.html
http://www.rypn.org/rypn_files/articles/Articles/030607yarger/default.htm
http://www.urbaneagle.com/slim/spng.html

A book on the area (including SP's standard gauge):
http://www.csrmf.org/store/itemdetail.asp?id=656

Owenyo today:
In Google Maps

Good background on the area:

http://www.schweich.com/fn2005.html

The Sierra Talc Plant:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1737770
http://www.schweich.com/imagehtml/IMGP1534sm.html

Old maps:

http://www.narrowgauge.net/ng_maps.htm

[Ryan87]

OK, you have officially tempted me!

[tom mann]

OK, you have officially tempted me!

Yeah, this looks like a great little shelf layout...On30 with small buildings and desert scenery.

...and platforms to transfer to standard gauge...

[hminky]

http://www.urbaneagle.com/slim/spng.html

Harold

[Chris333]

I really don't like western narrow gauge, it looks too mainline-ish. Like why did it even need to be narrow gauge with such large equipment.  I do sort of like the NevadaCountyNarrowGaugeRR though and there was the 2' gauge tram with a bunch of small shays.

[wcfn100]

I really don't like western narrow gauge, it looks too mainline-ish. Like why did it even need to be narrow gauge with such large equipment.

I'm not sure what you mean about western narrow gauge, but there is a good book about the United Verde and Pacific Railroad that talks about why it was chosen to be built as a narrow gauge railroad.

It's all the stuff we know:
Less dirt and rock to move for fills, cuts and tunnels.
Less steel and wood for the track.
Cheaper equipment.
The sharp radius turns allowed for less fills and bridges. (Which I never thought about)

It does talk about the hassle of transferring cargo to standard gauge but most of the mined or bulk type commodities could just be gravity fed and for hand transferred cargo, labor was cheap.


As a side note, the UV&P had a daylight only schedule, so some of it's locomotives had no headlight.


Jason

[Chris333]

Jason,
The United Verde and Pacific Railroad sounds like a not so main line operation. I was mostly taking about the C&S and Rio Grande. Guess it is just the part of me who doesn't really like western RR's at all. Just how I feel.

The reasons you listed sound right, but RR's like the Rio Grande had some of the biggest narrow gauge equipment so the benefits are less and less.

Please no western modeler hate mail 

[Sokramiketes]

Please send lots of western modeler hate mail 

Chris!  You need to leave Ohio and go railfanning out West some time.  I even bought some modern equipment after this last trip... as the BNSF was quite inspiring.   

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=90307

[Erik W]

Chris, 

No hate mail from out west here.     The Rio Grande started as a 100% 3' gauge line in the late 1800's.  Obviously much of the line was changed to standard gauge over time.  The original late 1800 era equipment was actually quite small but grew in size as the years went by.  The reality was that the Rio Grande was perpetually strapped for cash so one of the main reasons the remaining narrow gauge lines weren't standard gauged was because they didn't have enough traffic to warrant the cost.  So, they had to make do with what they had available.  What appeals to me about the Rio Grande narrow gauge is exactly what detracts you from it, these quite large locomotives operating on track that is so narrow.  While big by narrow gauge standards, the Rio Grande equipment is still pretty small compared to mainline standard gauge stuff.  It's also crazy to think that because of the oil boom in the area, they operated this stuff with steam engines and wooden truss rod freight cars up through 1968!


Typical 3000 series D&RGW boxcar with a couple of standard gauge boxcars.


A D&RGW 1400 series standard gauge 2-10-2 with a narrow gauge K36 2-8-2.

Erik

[mopaustin]

The story of Owens Valley always fills me with hatred towards that eyesore of a city, Los Angeles.  > > The SP Narrow Gauge was such an oddball, with a diesel being it's main power!

I too like the "mainline" look of the DRGW narrow gauge. I'm not much for eastern narrow gauge. 'cept maybe the EBT. 

I think that the DRGW's mainline steam has never been showcased that well, as all of the DRGW layouts I've ever seen are either of the narrow gauge or diesel era mainline.

[3rdrail]

How about Southern (deep Southern, like Louisiana) narrow gauge?

[mopaustin]

Now that I like!

I know that there were some narrow gauge lines in east Texas that were probably a lot like the above.

[Chris333]

Are there any websites on the Godchaux Railroad? They ran steam into the 1950's.

[SquirrelHollow]

How 'bout some Colorado/Utah 36" narrow guage.
Sorry about the black and white, but the railway shut down in 1939.  It's all high desert plateau scenery.

Uintah Railway, Baxter Pass.  http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/Uintah_History,4899

Uintah Railway, 1 of 2 hairpin curves (66 degrees).   
Notably, the only troop train to ever grace the line's rails.  Shutting down Fort Duchesne and shipping the soldiers off to WWI, led to a unique train. http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/Uintah_History,167

Passenger service ran daily - one coach in each direction, with unique water cars to fill the depot's tank.
http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/Uintah_History,1511 

I'd keep digging up photos, but the low quality and lack of good scenery photos is pissing me off.  There are MUCH better examples of these photos available, just not online.  If I can find a scanner, I might show you a few examples from a book I've got.

Anyway, it was high desert, high walled canyons, and the "Crookedest Railroad in the World."  Not a single section was actually straight besides the junction in Mack with DRG standard guage, and not a single section was level.  The lowest grade was 1.5%, and Baxter Pass had a 7 mile (?) run with a steady 7.5% grade.  It was the realm of Shays, 0-6-2Ts, and 2-6-6-2T Mallets (made famous when Sumpter Valley bought them).

[tom mann]

So who is modeling SP's Keeler branch with me?