Atlas N H-24-66 (Trainmaster) Sound

[haasmarc]

I just got my new Atlas Trainmasters with ESU sound.  They run great!  Very smooth.

The question I have is that when accelerating, the engine sound rpm's don't change.  They stay at idle all the way up the speed range. When I put it on the track, it does a start-up sequence, which sounds good, but once it gets to idle it just stays there.

I have 4 of them and they all do the same thing.

They also play a lot of flange squealing while moving.  And I mean a lot.  It probably won't bother me once I turn down the volume but geez.

The FA1's I just got sound great and accelerate like you would expect.

[ek2000]

The trainmaster sound (file below) does seem to increase in tempo. My Kato P42 acts the same way (no change in sound) and ESU said that's prototypical.

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/search?cat=2&q=FM

[haasmarc]

From Atlas website:

"Over 20 sound effects are available, including engine start-up and shutdown, prime mover sounds through all eight notches, bell, air horn, air compressor, dynamic brakes and more."

Sounds like it should ramp up.

[tehachapifan]

The trainmaster sound (file below) does seem to increase in tempo. My Kato P42 acts the same way (no change in sound) and ESU said that's prototypical.

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/search?cat=2&q=FM

I'm curious about the P42 file as well and have also heard that it's supposedly prototypical, but I really wonder if that's the case. Is it perhaps because these locos are/were typically pulling a relatively short string of passenger cars vs. a long freight and thus not needing to go to a higher notch?

[spookshow]

My Train Master is the same as yours. Whether it's parked, moving slow or moving fast, the engine sound is the same.

-Mark

[ek2000]

I'm curious about the P42 file as well and have also heard that it's supposedly prototypical, but I really wonder if that's the case. Is it perhaps because these locos are/were typically pulling a relatively short string of passenger cars vs. a long freight and thus not needing to go to a higher notch?

This was ESUs response for the P42 sound
"
What he is hearing is what is supposed to happen in a P42.

These do not notch on the prototype like a regular GE.

They have Hostler Mode which goes to about notch 2. This is used for connecting to the train and moving around “light engine”

And HEP Mode. Once HEP mode is on the prime goes to about 900 RPM and stays there. These have a shaft driven Head End Power unit and the Prime mover has to be that high to operate it.

Here is a link to the “bulletin” which explains that you must press F26 to activate HEP Mode (remapable if desired)

http://projects.esu.eu/projects/print/S0582
"

[Mark5]

This should give you some idea of what a Trainmaster should sound like under load:

[haasmarc]

Thanks Mark!

That's a baby trainmaster but I can't believe his bigger brother sounds too much different.  Definitely ramps the rpms up and down.

[haasmarc]

If I haven't figured it out, I am planning to go to Amherst at the end of the month.  I can ask Atlas and ESU about it.

[tehachapifan]

This was ESUs response for the P42 sound
"
What he is hearing is what is supposed to happen in a P42.

These do not notch on the prototype like a regular GE.

They have Hostler Mode which goes to about notch 2. This is used for connecting to the train and moving around “light engine”

And HEP Mode. Once HEP mode is on the prime goes to about 900 RPM and stays there. These have a shaft driven Head End Power unit and the Prime mover has to be that high to operate it.

Here is a link to the “bulletin” which explains that you must press F26 to activate HEP Mode (remapable if desired)

http://projects.esu.eu/projects/print/S0582
"

Thanks. I know about HEP mode. If there's a consist of 2 or more P42's, my understanding is the only rearmost unit runs the HEP and is in high-idle. I have a hard time believing that the other units in that consist stay in hostler mode at about notch 2, even on a steep climb. Doesn't make sense. That said, I can't say for certain that they don't.

...there is this "load mode" thing that LokSound (V5?) decoders apparently have. However, I haven't been able to get that feature to do anything but make the loco I tried to adjust it in to start abruptly stopping. Never got it to increase RPM's like it seems to be claimed.

[kiwi_bnsf]

Thanks. I know about HEP mode. If there's a consist of 2 or more P42's, my understanding is the only rearmost unit runs the HEP and is in high-idle. I have a hard time believing that the other units in that consist stay in hostler mode at about notch 2, even on a steep climb. Doesn't make sense. That said, I can't say for certain that they don't.

The ESU behaviour technically correct for a P42 in HEP mode — with the prime mover locked at 900rpm to generate the required 60Hz frequency for the HEP. Notching up in HEP mode on the prototype leads to no rpm change, just more GE "chug" as the engine is fuelled more heavily, which is not included in the ESU samples (instead they just kick in more nasty engine room high frequency sound for notches 7-8 that is pretty awful).

I don't think ESU thought about consisted operations with P42s when they recorded / mastered the S0582 sound project 

You are correct that in a multi-unit consist, only one P42 will be HEP mode (this is often the one of the trailing units, but Amtrak will rotate which unit has HEP enabled to balance fuel consumption over a long journey). The other units that are not in HEP mode will have normal notching behaviour and rpm changes, and enter idle/low idle at a stop. ESU has simply omitted this capability from their S0582 sound project as there are no samples beyond notch 2 when HEP mode is disengaged.

This means that you are stuck with either a P42 that is at 900rpm with nasty high frequency at notches 7-8 and no chug, or a P42 with chug that only progresses to notch 2 when in non-HEP. Both options sound pretty bad to me — I might have a go at grafting the Dash 8 or Dash 9 prime mover samples into the project, but the P42 has a very distinctive prime mover sound.


The more time I spend with prime mover ESU sound samples, the more I begin to think that many of them suffer from being recorded too close or inside the locomotive. There is rarely the throaty / chug that you get when standing 20-30m away. This is is then compounded when reproduced on a cell phone speaker that favours the high frequencies — but a speaker can't reproduce what isn't there in the first place!

[kiwi_bnsf]

Getting back on topic — assuming Atlas are using the one-and-only available Fairbanks Morse S0532 project, this should definitely progress through notch rpm changes as you increase speed.

There are several function mapped modes that can change the prime mover sound behaviour while moving — make sure you do not have any of these active:
    F4  Dynamic Brake
    F15  Isolation Switch
    F26  Manual Notching Up / Run8
    F27  Manual Notching Down / Coast
    F28  Manual Notching Logic
    F29  Load

The only other thing that I can think of is that the factory programmed the SoundCV values for the notches incorrectly.

SoundCV1-8 [CV155-CV162] configure the speed steps (from 0-255) used for each notch. You could read these back on a Programming track (even if you do not have a LokProgrammer). The default values should be:
    Notch1 speed = SoundCV1 [CV 155] = 1
    Notch2 speed = SoundCV2 [CV 156] = 21
    Notch3 speed = SoundCV3 [CV 157] = 36
    Notch4 speed = SoundCV4 [CV 158] = 59
    Notch5 speed = SoundCV5 [CV 159] = 81
    Notch6 speed = SoundCV6 [CV 160] = 99
    Notch7 speed = SoundCV7 [CV 161] = 119
    Notch8 speed = SoundCV8 [CV 162] = 136

Hope that this helps!

[haasmarc]

Ok, I got them to notch up and down.  It is strange though.  My normal DCC system is EasyDCC and it doesn't control functions up through F28 so I hooked up my NCE PowerCab.  The first thing I did was display what   functions were set.  Only F8 was on.  I ran the engine on my test track and it did not notch up and down which it should because F28 (Manual Notching) was not turned on.  I then turned it on and then back off again and then tested the engine again.  This time the engine notched up and down like I expected it to.  I then placed the engine on the layout and ran it using EasyDCC and it again notched up and down as expected.

Why the manual notching seems to be turned on out of the box even though it doesn't look to be turned on, I have no idea.

[eja]

Glad you seem to have it working "prototypical" ...

The information in this thread gives a big headache and makes me happy I don't have any sound locomotives.

I can live without it  .. YMMV

ed