Author Topic: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks  (Read 884 times)

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ATSF_Ron

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Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« on: April 10, 2024, 06:35:02 PM »
+1
In digging through some old supply boxes, I found an old (mid 1990s?!) Goldenwest Models UP CA-3 caboose kit I had started some years ago.  I figure it's time to get this thing finished!  All parts are still accounted for...except the trucks.  As I suspected, the company website and phone are down.  UGH!  I did some digging around and found an old TRW post from 2017 on the Keystone Customs trucks.  I checked Shapeways and it looks like they're still around.  Has anyone here built these and used them successfully?  I figure for 12 bucks it's worth trying.  I'd prefer to use the correct type of trucks rather than slapping on something else that's not even close.


Notice the store sticker.  Haha!  For those of you familiar with Bruce's Trains in Sacramento, you know he hasn't been around for a number of years.  That's why my best guess is mid 1990s.  I had no room for a layout in a one-bedroom apt.  My modeling time was kit building and layout planning in those days.

Sokramiketes

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2024, 06:46:03 PM »
0
The shapeways trucks will be more reliable than the flat built-up originals. 

Goldenwest Models went to Des Plaines Hobbies and were released as built up models under the Centralia Car Shops/Intermountain flag in their last iteration.  It's too bad the flat kit market didn't take off, as it would have been a good solution to the road specific cabooses we all need.

C855B

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2024, 07:06:20 PM »
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The shapeways trucks will be more reliable than the flat built-up originals.

Absolposilutely. Takes some special tricks - like soldering iron welding - to keep the originals operable.
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Lemosteam

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2024, 07:58:37 PM »
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Being they were designed by me, I can tell you that all of my data from other trucks I designed suggest very free rolling metal axles. A little hand reaming with a spherical Dremel bit, (#107, I think).

The only thing they cannot handle is a hard drop. Ask me how I know. Normal use is great.


ATSF_Ron

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2024, 08:18:44 PM »
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I’ll order a set!

Mike, 100% truth there.

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2024, 10:19:32 AM »
+2
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I’ll order a set!

Mike, 100% truth there.

And the added benefit is that, if you have problems, you can razz @Lemosteam here all you want, for free!

ATSF_Ron

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2024, 11:02:46 AM »
+1
Holy CRAP!! I forgot about all the fees on Shapeways.  As bad as EvilBay.  The price is basically doubled after tax, shipping, and fees.  Ah well, the price we pay to have the correct stuff...

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2024, 11:49:02 AM »
+3
Holy CRAP!! I forgot about all the fees on Shapeways.  As bad as EvilBay.  The price is basically doubled after tax, shipping, and fees.  Ah well, the price we pay to have the correct stuff...

We need to make files available for purchase rather than a printout. FUD was long ago surpassed by home printers and Thingiverse is good, I think there is space for a file marketplace.
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Lemosteam

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2024, 12:30:27 PM »
+1
We need to make files available for purchase rather than a printout. FUD was long ago surpassed by home printers and Thingiverse is good, I think there is space for a file marketplace.

I can tell you unequivocally that the supports needed for a truck such as this, and the residual resin in the axle pockets and other details make for a much worse looking truck than the Shapeways version.

I would never try to sell my resin printed N Scale trucks to anyone.

Would love to see mine printed on a DLP printer, but any other type, forget it.

You might be surprised by the quality of the new clear print materal.  Leaves FUD and FXD in the dust.

JMaurer1

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2024, 01:09:34 PM »
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I have bought a couple of prints in the past and the people producing them have moved on or shut down and their models are no longer available. Since they are older models, the prints are rather...brittle and I've broken the steps on one of them. I wish I could have bought the STL file instead so I could print out another...also I wanted to modify it anyway. At the same time, I can see the problem with this as well as people are taking free files and selling them as their own work.
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2024, 01:40:06 PM »
0
I have bought a couple of prints in the past and the people producing them have moved on or shut down and their models are no longer available. Since they are older models, the prints are rather...brittle and I've broken the steps on one of them. I wish I could have bought the STL file instead so I could print out another...also I wanted to modify it anyway. At the same time, I can see the problem with this as well as people are taking free files and selling them as their own work.

The issue could be fixed with a new file format made specifically for printing. Ebooks and movies use DRM, I'm not sure why this has not been tackled by CAD software providers yet. It seems like a big untapped opportunity.
There's a shyness found in reason
Apprehensive influence swallow away
You seem to feel abysmal take it
Then you're careful grace for sure
Kinda like the way you're breathing
Kinda like the way you keep looking away

Chris333

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2024, 02:03:03 PM »
+1
You can strip a DRM from anything.

robert3985

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2024, 03:57:55 PM »
+2
I have a dozen or so of the Golden West Models CA-3 kits that I haven't assembled yet and at least three that I've assembled or are in various states of assembly.


Notes about what "correct" UP Caboose trucks are available:


First, the trucks that are supplied with the kits are trash.  Yes, they can be used with a judicious but precise amount of melting the plastic together with a soldering iron, cauterizer pen, or hot cutter for fishing line, but I wouldn't bother since other, much better alternatives are readily available.

Two Shapeways vendors produce correct, but different trucks for the Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops and Golden West Models kit CA-3/CA-4 UP cabooses.

They are Panamint Models and Keystone Details.

I'll talk about the Panamint Models wooden beamed "Q" trucks first:


The only drawbacks to these is that they are a bit fragile, especially the brake shoes on the end brake shoe hangers...but only when handling before putting on the model.  So be careful.  The other drawback is the slightly obvious Shapeways layer lines, which is evident in closeups.  Some prints are worse than others, so good luck.

the Panamint Models version is an "almost correct" wooden beamed "Q" truck that was supplied on all of UP's new riveted steel CA-3/CA-4 cabooses...both cabooses being exactly the same except for an obscure brace inside the end platform roof overhang on the CA-4 which isn't visible any CA-4 N-scale model I've ever seen.

The Panamint Models "Q" truck version is "almost correct" because it is designed from the CB&Q 5ft No.7 Passenger Truck, with a bit different detailing on the top wooden beam than UP's version which had a steel plate that covered the exterior of that same piece of oak with different nut & bolt details.  But, close enough and they still look really good, and very distinctive because nobody else has them on their UP cabooses!

Photo (1) - Panamint "T57" trucks on one of my Golden West Models CA-3 caboose builds:


Photo (2) - Unpainted Panamint "T57" trucks on the same caboose, which shows their detailing:


There are several types of attachment protocols for the Panamint CB&Q 5ft No. 7 trucks, (1) an offset bolster pin hole that fits MTL cars, such as their "wooden caboose" so the truck won't hit the platform steps, (2) a version with a centered bolster pin hole, which I use for my Golden West Models Kit CA-3/CA-4 cabooses, and (3) a version with a smaller bolster hole designed for using a screw, such as on the Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops CA-3/CA-4 cabooses.

You can buy two of the Panamint Models "T57pX2 Passenger Truck CBQ No7 Pin" (which is the centered version) for $10.00...again, this is the style of bolster pin (standard MTL bolster pin) I use for my Golden West Models kit projects.

Photo (3) - Here are Panamint Models trucks on one of my IMR/CCS "Red" UP cabooses which I "improved" a little with marker lamps and some extra decals...and straightening up and re-gluing:



Next, I'll talk about the Keystone Details Outside Swing Hanger trucks:


Luckily for N-scalers wanting correct, more modern trucks on their Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops CA-3/CA-4 cabooses, and in this case, on the Golden West Models kit, Keystone Details has designed two different kinds of Outside Swing Hanger Trucks (incorrectly called "Q" trucks).

These are very nicely done, and I don't see very noticeable Shapeways layer lines on them.  Each truck has tiny mounting tabs with a .0145" hole through it for inserting a wire to represent the outside-mounted torsion bar that was distinctive of these trucks.  Unfortunately, these tabs are very fragile and I've broken three of them off of my two trucks, which I'll have to replace with Styrene equivalents.  Not Keystone Details fault, but mine, even though I am pretty careful with my fragile N-scale stuff.

Photo (4) - Unpainted Keystone Details "N Scale UP Friction Bearing Q TRUCK"s (they're not "Q" trucks, but Outside Swing Hanger Trucks) on one of my IMR/CCS Caboose improvement projects:



Photo (5) - Unmounted Keystone Details "N Scale UP Friction Bearing Q TRUCK"s getting ready to have FVM narrow profile wheelsets inserted:


Two styles of Outside Swing Hanger Trucks are available from Keystone Details, the early version, with "friction" bearings, and the last version, with roller bearings and a truck-mounted generator/alternator on one truck.

Which trucks to use depends on what paint scheme and what era you want to depict on your layout.

Since I model from 1947 thru 1956, and pool service CA-3/CA-4's didn't start until 1975, I don't have any Keystone Details Roller Bearing trucks to take photos of.


Now, I'll talk about paint schemes and what trucks for what eras on UP CA-3/CA-4 cabooses: 

For ALL Oxide Red (Freight Car Red) early CA-3's and CA-4's, only the Panamint Models "T57" (with centered bolster pin holes) are correct. This paint scheme lasted until Freight Car Red cars started being replaced by the Yellow Scheme starting in 1947, with some Freight Car Red cabooses lasting until maybe 1953.

The Yellow Scheme started being applied to all UP cabooses in 1947, and again, the Panamint Models "T57" trucks would also be correct on CA-3/CA-4 Yellow cabooses until sometime in 1958, when the truck re-assignment was finished.

Starting in 1952, half of the CA-3's and CA-4's were equipped with the Keystone Details "N Scale UP Friction Bearing Q TRUCKs"

Starting in 1975, Pool Service CA-3/CA-4's were equipped with the Keystone Details "N Scale UP Roller Bearing Q TRUCK 2PK w/Generator", but only two CA-3's and seven CA-4's were converted to Pool Service in 1975.

So, before choosing which trucks to buy, it's a good idea to determine what paint scheme you want and what era you're gonna run your caboose in.


A few notes about the Golden West Models Kit:

Although not especially difficult to build, these models are fragile until fully assembled.  Take special care to not break off the body sides' roof extensions that extend over the end platforms on either end before gluing on the roof panels.

Take care with assembling the end platform steps. It's easy to get the two step assemblies too close together so that there is one giant step on top of the platform to the next step rather than two steps.  I did this on one of my first assemblies, and after being glued, there's not much can be done about it, so be careful.

Also, keep track of which roof panel goes where before gluing on.  I superdetailed my first Golden West Models kit completely in a UP Yellow scheme, and glued the roof panels on with the smokejack and toilet vent (each on different roof panels) on the wrong ends, so the smokejack was right above a normal window, and the toilet vent was over no window.

Speaking of the toilet window, on the prototype the glass on that window is frosted slightly, so when you are gluing your clear window material on the inside of the caboose walls, rub where the caboose window is with some 400 grit sandpaper in multiple directions to "frost" it up.

Since the windows are pretty large on these cabooses, especially the cupola windows, it's a good idea to paint the interior a very light green.  I use Penn Central Green from my stash of Pollyscale paint, but I've got some Tru-Color TCP-228 "Passenger Car Interior Light Green" I'm trying on my next caboose build.

Photo (6) - Basic Cupola interior and light green paint, along with safety bars on one of my Golden West Models CA-3/CA-4 projects:


Since the caboose body is molded from slightly translucent yellow plastic, I give mine a thin coat of light grey primer to make them opaque if I'm applying the Yellow caboose scheme.

The cast-on underbody center beam on the model is much too shallow, so I use a piece of 1/8" Plastruct or Evergreen Channel (I prefer the Plastruct becauuse it's thicker/sturdier) to add to the shallow one on the kit floor, then file it down where the trucks will mount to get my caboose to the right height.

Photo (7) - Showing my Plastruct 1/8" Channel glued in, relocated air reservoir & proportional valve, and also the Panamint Models "T58p" trucks with the offset bolster pin holes for rotational clearance:


On the Golden West Models kit, the truck mounting holes are designed for the kit truck bolster pins, but they're an odd diameter (too large for a screw, too small for an MTL bolster pin), and you'll have to drill them out to insert a "regular" MTL bolster pin in them with a 5/64" bit.

When using either brand and kind of trucks on this kit, you'll need to relocate the air reservoir and proportioning valve so there's no interference.

My minimum mainline radius is 24" and my absolute minimum radius in yards, branchline, sidings and spurs is 18", so I don't need a lot of rotation on my caboose trucks.  Truck rotation is NOT a problem with Keystone Details trucks, but with the Panamint Models "Q" trucks and their brake hanger bars extending across the front & back of these trucks (a very nice detail adding to the prototypical look of your caboose model), you might not get enough truck rotation for compact curves.  To correct this problem you could either re-locate your bolster pin holes equally inward a bit, or purchase the Panamint Models T58p trucks with the offset bolster pin hole.  You'll still have to re-locate the air reservoir and proportioning valve however.

Photo - ( 8 ) Showing Rotation of Keystone Details Outside Swing Hanger Trucks on a IMR/CCS CA-3 in-progress improvement project with relocated air reservoir & proportioning valve:


I use a Tenax equivalent plastic welding "glue" to weld my caboose parts to each other applying it from the inside.  Although Tenax is out of business, the one plastic welder that's identical is available from Flex-I-File and is their "Plast-I-Weld Professional Plastic Welder".  Flex-I-File has additional applicators and other plastic "welding" accessories also.

If you have a chemical store close by, you can buy the exact same chemical as Tenax was by buying some Dichloromethane, also known as Methylene Chloride.  This is what I did, and I got one pint of it for around $35, which will last me the rest of my life.  While at my local chemistry store, I also bought half a dozen small brown bottles to use at my workbench and to give to my modeling buddies.  I also use this stuff for assembling Intermountain freight car kits.  Works great!

Although with the addition of the proper trucks and center-beam, and maybe marker lamps, an otherwise pure-stock Golden West Models CA-3/CA-4 caboose kit can look fairly decent.
 
Photo (9) - IMR/CCS CA-3 re-lettered and re-trucked, straightened & re-glued to make it accurate for running behind a GTEL 3-Unit Turbine done for my great departed friend Nate Goodman:


BUT, the oversized and crudely molded running boards aren't pretty, nor is not having the cupola grab iron either.  It's pretty easy to cut off the cast-on grabs and replace them with wire grabs, and build a cupola grab using etched lift rings to hold it on.  Cut-up Plano 50' boxcar etched stainless running boards make a near perfect replacement (glued on with canopy cement) for the gross plastic molded ones, and making up a more prototypical smoke-jack out of brass tubing is pretty easy, or machine a new one if you've got a lathe.

If you want to really get carried away, adding a cupola interior along with interior cupola window safety bars and maybe a brakeman sitting up there waving out an open window could add a lot of interest to your model. Underneath, replacing the verrrrry basic kit brake furniture with Precision Scale detail parts will make a big difference too.

For non-pool cabooses, marker lamps on the rear with red & green MV lenses really adds something to the model.

Lastly, MTL Z-scale couplers and Precison Scale brass brake hoses (so they don't break) add the finishing touches.

Doing just a little more work to the Golden West Models CA-3/CA-4 will yield a noticeably better model than a stock Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops model.

Photo (10) - Showing getting carried away with a Golden West Models CA-3/CA-4 in-progress project:


Anyway, have FUN...I'm working on several cabooses right now...fixing up some broken Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops CA-3/CA-4's to sell on eBay this week, one of them using Keystone Details trucks, the others using Panamint Models "T57" Q-trucks...both trucks I highly recommend.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore



Chris333

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2024, 05:54:34 PM »
0
Not to argue, but I print all my HOn30 trucks with a resin printer:
https://www.printables.com/model/528913-hon30-js-trucks
After cleaning the wheels pop right in and spin. I don't need to clean out the axle point.

ATSF_Ron

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Re: Keystone Customs UP caboose trucks
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2024, 06:51:57 PM »
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Bob, thanks for all of the excellent info on the UP cabooses and trucks!