Randgust the DCC Ludite - PRR decapod sound advice?

[randgust]

OK, so I know just enough about DCC now to add a wired decoder successfully, and it stops there.

On the other thread, I've managed to upgrade and rebuild a Trix decapod with 8x8 pickup, new motor, proper details, etc.  The drive on this thing is about as bulletproof and replaceable through spares as I can get now, I have 2 more chassis.  It's built to take a sustained beating.

Got the LED headlight installed, and have isolated the motor.   Also bridged the loco pickup independently back to the tender.
I have a 6-pin connector so I can get the tender off, much less clumsy to work on.

So, now that all that actually WORKS, and works really well on DC, I'm considering making this my designated DCC T-trak locomotive for Altoona.  Another one of those 'I really don't need it but I'm doing it anyway' projects, I have PRR DC locomotives already, time for something different.

 I can simply put in a wired decoder like a DZ126T, that part is easy, but I'm also seriously thinking about my first attempt at sound.   Here's what I think:

1)  It has to be a wired installation.  Everything in the tender.
2)  I have to at least be able to test it on a Digitrax Zephyr, no matter how clumsy that is, at least for basic DCC and sound can be finished later.
3)  I can cut out the plastic coal pile out of the Trix tender, substitute black foam, and put the speaker under it.   Tight, but should work.
4)  I'm assuming, but don't know, that they had basically the same 'PRR hooter' whistle on the Decapods as on some other steam, but I'll let the SPF's chime in on what might work and be accurate.   Remember I'm not a card-carrying SPF although my D16 at least got me in the door.

No idea what might work here for decoder, speaker, tips, that's what you guys are for.   

I have to admit that watching and hearing those BLI PRR locomotives charging around the modules with that whistle left an impression! 

[Mike C]

  If you are doing sound there is really no reason to replace the coal load with foam . The sound will get out just fine with stock coal load . I don't think I have ever tried to give the sound an exit hole , It just works      Mike

[Cajonpassfan]

Mike is right, I stopped worrying about exit holes some time ago.
As to sound decoders, while I prefer ESU for diesels, for steam I find the TSU2's a better choice, from the starting whoosh before exhausts begin, to the reverb functionality. I know nothing about the Pennsy whistles though...
Fun stuff,
Otto

[peteski]

My first ever sound decoder install (probably over 15 years ago) was a  Tsunami sound decoder in a tender of friend's N scale brass cab-forward loco.  Both the decoder and speaker barely fit into that cavernous hollow tender.  I did use some black anti-static  foam (I got from work) to simulate a coal load, and put the speaker under it (firing up through the foam). I shaped (plucked) the foam to look like coal. I thought I was pretty clever.  It looked and sounded pretty good.  Did it sound better than other types of speaker installs?  Dunno.

[randgust]

I'll nudge this because what I really want is simply a recommendation.   I've looked at a lot of decoders, sound decoders, etc., and still don't know what I'm looking at.   I 'think' I want a combination decoder, wired, that's small enough to go in the Trix tender with a speaker under the coal load area (which I can easily modify.  I'd like it to be pre-loaded with functional basics but I hope to evolve to downloading some specific sound files (specifically PRR style whistles) in the future.

When I'm looking at older threads that's the thing, this is a rapidly moving target for features, I'm finding some of the recommendations simply are no longer made, have been changed, etc.

You're talkin' to a guy that has done stock installs of DZ126T's, that's my current skill level!

[GaryHinshaw]

How about this?:

https://sbs4dcc.com/products/esu-58823-loksound-5-micro-nmra-dcc-sound-decoder-hardwire.html

with this sound file:

https://projects.esu.eu/projects/print/S0784

Many shops, including SBS in the link above, will load the sound file for you, and make sure the decoder is healthy.  The wiring follows standard NMRA colour specs.  There are a myriad of speaker and enclosure options that you can choose from on the SBS site.  Any sugar cube style speaker, with enclosure, that fits should be suitable.  The motor control on these decoders is exquisite.

(This decoder may actually come with an 11x15 mm speaker.  The documentation is contradictory on this point, but the dealer could clarify.)

[NDave]

Hi Randgust!
First of all... I am NOT a DCC expert. But I have done five hard-wired "installs" (perhaps more correctly, "conversions," since I was replacing existing decoders). From my experience, unless you want to dive deep into DCC sound, using either the proprietary Lok programmer or a computer interface and JMRI, I would shy away from the ESU loksound decoders. My Kato FEF-3 came with a Loksound decoder, and I use an NCE Powercab as my DCC controller and programmer. Even with the excellent guidance provided by John Colombo, I found programming the sounds on my FEF-3 with the Powercab to be a real pain... it was not at all intuitive.

Having little to no interest in setting up a computer interface to program with either a Lok programmer or JMRI, I eventually ended up converting my FEF-3 to a Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 Steam 2 decoder (and installing the same decoder into my 4 other steamers: two Bachmann 4-6-0s, a Bachmann 2-8-0, and an Athearn Challenger). Altho' you cannot download and install specific sound files, the Tsunami decoders come with a pretty good assortment of exhaust sounds (for small, med, or large steam), bells, and whistles (more than 90 whistles, including 2 PRR whistles). Programming the individual CVs may take a little longer than using a Lok programmer or JMRI, but it is pretty straightforward.

So, my recommendation would be:
 https://sbs4dcc.com/products/soundtraxx-884006-tsu-1100-tsunami-2-dcc-sound-decoder-steam-2-hardwire.html with the largest sugar cube speaker (https://sbs4dcc.com/sbs4dcc-products/sugar-cube-speakers/) you can fit in the tender.

My very first install was the Tsunami decoder, the included 320 uF (I think?) capacitor, and a 8mm x 12mm speaker (subsequently upgraded to an 11 x 15) into a Bachmann USRA SHORT tender, and two installs were into MP Vandy tenders... you should have no problem fitting everything into a decapod tender...

You might look into the Tsunami 2 "Big Steam" decoder, but my understanding is that the main addition to the Big Steam decoder are specific sounds files for UP Big Boy #4014.

Good luck!

[Dwight in Toronto]

Randgust - good on ya for deciding to explore sound installations.  I started down that road roughly three years ago, and it’s been a lot of great fun and learning.  Presumably you’ve already browsed through the magnificent install tutorials here on TRW … a great resource!

I standardized on ESU, and I’ve upgraded my entire N scale roster at this point, which includes four steam locos - Kato GS-4, Model Power 4-6-2, Dapol ‘Hall’ class 4-6-0, and Dapol 0-6-0 Terrier.  All were done by putting ESU 58731 ‘Kato Japan’ decoders and speakers within tenders (well, the Terrier doesn’t use a tender so I made a covered wagon sound car instead, but same approach).  ESU micro or nano decoders are dimensionally smaller and offer more outputs, but steamers don’t typically have a lot of lighting features, so the 58731 will suffice (and it has easily accessible solder pads).

The best advice I can share is, should you go with ESU, PLEASE spring for a LokProgrammer!  DecoderPro is free, and although it too eases decoder setup, I found LokProgrammer to be superior in several aspects.  Computer installation and operation was quick and trouble-free, the on-screen menus and user panes are more full-featured and intuitive, and it’s the only way to avail yourself of ESU’s extensive sound library.

Good luck, and let us know how you get along.

[randgust]

I looked at the Tsunami 2 and that seems more my speed at this point, particularly when I don't have a JMRI interface.   At this point I own all of ONE DCC equipped unit that I keep for testing against other DCC installs for customers, and if I am successful in putting this installation in my Decapod rebuild, it's pure show pony for the shows on the DCC track at shows.   Order made, thank you guys, and we'll see how this goes.

It's a little ironic that 30 years ago I was getting my BS in both robotics and microprocessing and all it taught me by this point is I really hated loading CV's and tinkering with this stuff any more than necessary.   I'm still DC on the main layout.   I came from the era where you had to hard-manage extended and expanded memory and set your own IRQ's and base addresses to put in a peripheral card in a PC....no feeling of nostalgia for that, or calculating ASCII bit strings for tonal voice output to a speaker.    The comparatively primitive interface battles in DCC still leave me cold.  I'll evolve....if I have to....I guess!

[peteski]

. . .
  I came from the era where you had to hard-manage extended and expanded memory and set your own IRQ's and base addresses to put in a peripheral card in a PC....no feeling of nostalgia for that, or calculating ASCII bit strings for tonal voice output to a speaker.    The comparatively primitive interface battles in DCC still leave me cold.  I'll evolve....if I have to....I guess!

Randy, we have similar background (which IMO actually makes dealing with DCC easier).  Before sound decoders DCC was rather easy.  Very few CVs to deal with, and most were not split into individual bits controlling different things (like CV29 is).  But when sound got introduced into the equation, the number of CV registers has increased dramatically, all the way into indexed CV register mapping.  The most advanced (read "complex") sound decoders like ESU, ZIMO, or QSI (yes, QSI is still around with very limited audience) decoders got so complicated that manually setting CVs for advanced sound configuration is not realistic.  You just have to face it.

Soundtraxx and BLI sound decoders are quite a bit simpler to program, but even those are a pain to deal with while using programming track and one-CV-at-a-time.

The companies making those complicated decoders realized that they shoudl provide an easier way to configure those decoders. That is why ESU, ZIMO, and QSI have produced dedicated hardware and GUI interface to access their decoders making the programming much more palatable for even an average DCC user.   No such dedicated programming aid for Soundtraxx or BLI.

So while decoders such as ESU are super complex, using their dedicated hardware and GUI-based software makes their programming much easier and more intuitive.  Just like Dwight mentioned.

Using JMRI and DecoderPro is very helpful (as it takes care of calculating things like CV indexes automatically), but it is still nto as good as the dedicated hardware/firmware.

All sound decoders have oodles of CV registers - that's just given. Even going with Soundtraxx you would be better off using DecoderPro, especially since like you said, you don't want to manually futz around with CVs.