ESU Throttle

[John]

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/mobile-control-ii/


This is very interesting ..

[peteski]

Looks like a smart phone with a large knob. Cool!

[jdcolombo]

The throttle only works with the ESU ECOS DCC system, but it is almost enough to make me want to buy the whole system.   It's expensive, but this is the first system that seems to have been built around an intuitive interface. The Ecos command station/booster is described here:

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/ecos-50200-dcc-system/what-ecos-can-do/

It's capabilities are pretty amazing, and apparently you can connect Digitrax throttles and boosters to it.  ESU has been my preferred sound decoder for over two years; with the ECoS system, they are making a pitch to be my DCC system as well.

John C.

[jdcolombo]

Looks like a smart phone with a large knob. Cool!

That's pretty much what it is, sans phone network connection.

John C.

[GaryHinshaw]

I recently heard about these stick-on touch screen knobs developed for sound mixing, but really applicable to any touch screen app that has a rotary slider.  A quick mod to Engine Driver or WiThrottle would turn any smart phone into a throttle with knob at a fraction of the cost.

[jdcolombo]

The stick-on knobs are interesting, but the rotary dial on the ESU Mobile Control II is motorized, so that if you are controlling two engines, you can go back and forth between the two and the knob will automatically reset itself to the speed of the engine you have selected.  And the throttle isn't really any more expensive than a Digitrax duplex throttle with the necessary duplex radio receiver.

The ESU ECoS system is undeniably expensive, and certainly not a product that everyone would want or even could afford.  But it brings the kind of user interface to the DCC market that should have been explored long ago by other companies.  Icons, for example, are user-customizable.  You can select a locomotive by touching its photo, which is also user-customizable.  There are (I think) 256 user slots for engine photos, so if you want, you could take a photo of each of your locomotives, upload them to the ECoS system, and have a completely-customized loco selection screen.  Of course, a good question is whether this is any better than just having a keypad with numerical selection.  Maybe not, but it's an example of what is possible with the ECoS interface.  Plus, the ECoS command station can directly connect to your home network via Ethernet, so interfacing with a computer system (and JMRI, for example) is as simple as plugging an Ethernet cable in to a router or switch.  Or you can set it up with its own WiFi node.  No need for a separate computer interface module and separate computer to talk with networked devices.

ESU has also developed a Loconet Interface converter, so that you can use Digitrax throttles, stationary decoders, etc. with the system.   It can use any DCC-compatible booster, too.

But what would sell me on the system now that the Mobile Control II is available is a bare-bones command station without the 7" touchscreen and dual throttle system.  The Mobile Control II is capable of doing anything you can do on the command station touch screen, so a bare-bones command station paired with a mobile control II would be a cost-effective way to get all of the advanced technology capability of the ECoS system.  The way my layout is constructed, I'd never use the touch screen or throttles that are part of the ECoS command station.

On the other hand, I wonder how hard it would be to build a WiFi-based throttle with a knob that would interface with JMRI?  Peteski - any thoughts on that?  I guess a commercial product would need FCC approvals, but I know that there are integrated WiFi chipsets that can be bought off-the-shelf, and the ESU Mobile Control II uses the Android operating system.  JMRI itself has nearly all the capabilities of the ECoS system, so . . .   

MARKET OPPORTUNITY???

John C.

[GaryHinshaw]

John,

I think just about every feature on your wish list - except the knob - is available already in some form with jmri + a web throttle (e.g. withrottle or engine driver) for free, assuming you have a basic command station, computer, and router already.  And folks are now addressing the knob.

My main point is that there is a growing open source effort to bring the power of consumer electronics to model railroading in a way that small proprietary firms will have a hard time matching in the long run.

To cite some examples in a setup I have some experience with now: I've started using engine driver on an android device and it is dead simple to acquire and consist locos on the fly (and to release them properly).  To select a loco the throttle displays a clickable list from your jmri roster.  If you have photos in your roster, I think they can be displayed in that list.  Consisting is as simple as picking another loco from the list - no need to punch in addresses with cheap pushbuttons, then hit MU, then +, then repeat for 3rd loco... (think Digitrax).   The throttle communicates with the jmri throttle server through commercial wifi (very reliably too) and jmri transmits the commands to your command station.  The era of proprietary radio throttles will fade.

If you're willing to be a little patient about the knob, you can have what you describe now for free.

[peteski]

The stick-on knobs are interesting, but the rotary dial on the ESU Mobile Control II is motorized, so that if you are controlling two engines, you can go back and forth between the two and the knob will automatically reset itself to the speed of the engine you have selected.  And the throttle isn't really any more expensive than a Digitrax duplex throttle with the necessary duplex radio receiver.
....

On the other hand, I wonder how hard it would be to build a WiFi-based throttle with a knob that would interface with JMRI?  Peteski - any thoughts on that?  I guess a commercial product would need FCC approvals, but I know that there are integrated WiFi chipsets that can be bought off-the-shelf, and the ESU Mobile Control II uses the Android operating system.  JMRI itself has nearly all the capabilities of the ECoS system, so . . .   

John,

The motorized knob is a wonderful gadget but to me it sounds like a cute gimmick.  Most hardware-based DCC throttles nowadays use speed-control knobs tied to an encoder (not a pot).  As such, they can be spun endlessly without stops with the actual speed step indicated on the display.    While I do prefer the old fashion knobs which have stops at zero and maximum speed I also realize that the encoders are much more flexible.

The old fashion type of a throttle (using a pot) is ideally suited for yard switching operation. In a yard you also don't need all the fancy extra functions on the throttles.  You also only operate only one or two yard engines so there is no need to switch the throttle between many multiple locos.  Utility throttles sold by several DCC manufacturers fit a function of a yard throttle perfectly (and they are usually the least expensive throttle). 

Think about it John -- while you are in the middle of an operating session, how often do you have to switch between loco addresses?  If you are running a mainline train you keep the address the same for the entire run. If you are running a yard, you also keep the switcher's address constant.  Do you really need the motorized speed knob?  I suspect that Europeans run their layouts differently than we do in U.S. and the motorized speed knob might have a greater appeal to them.

While I love to dive in into electronic hardware, I have not had extensive experience with JMRI or the WiFi throttles.  I don't even own a smart phone!    Well, to be perfectly honest, I bought one of those $5 low-end smart phones running Android, just so I could use it as a WiFi throttle at a friend's layout. It isn't even activated. That is the extent of my experience with this technology.  Majority of my hobby time is spent messing around with the hardware (taking locos apart).

[jdcolombo]

Yes, agree that some of this borders on the gimmicky side.  I use Wi-Throttle on my iPhone with JMRI running on an old desktop computer, interfaced to my Digitrax Chief command station with the PR3.  This works very, very well, but a regular old knob for speed control would be better in some situations. 

The reason I've gotten interested in this is that I've had considerable trouble with the Digitrax radio throttles.  The simplex throttles I use (the UT4 utility throttles) work great until I get 8 people in my basement each with a throttle.  Then like clockwork, weird things start to happen, and the throttles lose train control, won't communicate with the command station, etc.  I've heard that the duplex system is more robust, but switching 8 UT4's to duplex throttles and buying a new duplex radio interface would be expensive.

At my last operating session, when the inevitable radio issues cropped up, I used Wi-Throttle running on some old (and new) iPhones as my "backup" system, and they worked great.  At least in my basement, WiFi seems far more robust and reliable than the Digitrax simplex radio.  That's why I found the ESU Mobile Control II throttle so interesting - WiFi based, everything networked using standard ethernet, etc.  A lot like Wi-Throttle, but with a functioning knob, and some hard buttons you could use for direction control.  Plus, like Wi-Throttle, you can label the function buttons, so the operators don't have to wonder what function button does what.  My two through-train operators preferred the Wi-Throttle app partly because of this: no mystery about the function buttons, easy to select engines, etc.   But one of them did mention that he missed the UT4's knob.

If someone is working on a WiFi JMRI-compatible throttle with a knob, that would be the holy grail as far as I'm concerned.  JMRI does have everything I need . . . except a WiFi throttle with a knob!

John C.

[nstars]

John,

The Roco Z21 system may come quite close to your ideal system.

Marc