Micro-Trains 70' Warren Flats

[wcfn100]

I know the topic has come up a few times and that Joe hinted at it, but I don't remember anything official.  In this months MTL release is a 3-pack on Mt Vernon  Warren Flats.

Jason

[SkipGear]

Saw that also. Wondering when they will be available individually or in an RBBB set to back date the existing Circus Train. From my Circus guy in the shop, he said they would probably be reasonable from the early 50's through the late 70's at minimum.

[JoeD]

I'm not clear on the release schedule at the moment, but we will have singles, doubles, double doubles (in and out reference) and the like.

Joe

[JoeD]

It's a Warren flat BTW

[wcfn100]

It's a Warren flat BTW

Oops, sorry Joe, not sure what my brain did there.  I'll try and correct the title.

Jason

[thomasjmdavis]

OK, I probably won't be able to resist these- but will there be a possibility of getting them undecorated somewhere down the line? 

[Cumbo2000]

N scale kits based upon the actual prototype are available here:http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/circus_warren.html

They also offer the Mt. Vernon version: http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/circus_mt_vernon.html

Bob Witt

[sirenwerks]

So I'm scratching my head on these...  The MTL images don't look like the Warren flats I'm familiar with, with the top bow in the car side.  In fact it looks more like MTL's old 50-something foot TOFC flat.  So I gotta ask... Are there significantly different Warren flats that I'm not aware of; or is the MTL image not reflective of the actual model being released; or (cringe) is MTL using an old body style to stand in for a different prototype?

[thomasjmdavis]

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on circus trains, and have never even played on on TV.

I was assuming these were flats built in the 50s for RBBB (working from memory here, but didn't they get some new flats at about the same time as they were rebuilding hospital cars?), and the construction was for those particular cars, rather than the ones from the 30s with the pronounced side curve (the N Scale Kits model).  Will try to look this up tonight after work.

[sirenwerks]

I was assuming these were flats built in the 50s for RBBB (working from memory here, but didn't they get some new flats at about the same time as they were rebuilding hospital cars?), and the construction was for those particular cars, rather than the ones from the 30s with the pronounced side curve (the N Scale Kits model).  Will try to look this up tonight after work.

Both primary circus flat manufacturers, Warren and Mt. Vernon, were out of business by the time RBBB needed these newer cars.  I believe the cars you refer to were built by Thrall and had a design much more akin to the original Mt. Vernon cars, with a pronounced fishbelly side, not a topside arc like the Warrens or straight sides like the MTL images. 


I imagine there were straight side cars though.  It seems probable given the hackney nature of circus equipment.  They just weren't as popular as the (iconic) Warren and Mt. Vernon designs. 

[thomasjmdavis]

I think I am going to have to trust Joe that it really is a Warren car.  Perhaps he will elaborate on the specific prototype.  The artwork on the MT site does make it appear to me that there is a very slight curve on the lower edge of the car side. 

http://www.trainweb.org/circus/train_equipment.htm (scroll down to a photo of a Warren car)

[up1950s]

I will need some , and some and more if without the modern carts . How about 5 empty flats for the price of 3 loaded flats . You could sell the carts in 2 packs all by themselves , also some undec  cart sets , same for the flats .

[sirenwerks]

I think I am going to have to trust Joe that it really is a Warren car.  Perhaps he will elaborate on the specific prototype.  The artwork on the MT site does make it appear to me that there is a very slight curve on the lower edge of the car side. 
http://www.trainweb.org/circus/train_equipment.htm (scroll down to a photo of a Warren car)

The Warren in the pic is only about 2/3 of the car which, combined with the viewing angle, diminishes the pronouncement of the arc on the flat's side members.  Here's a (near) dead-on shot:





Keep in mind that, on this car's paint job, the large lettering panel trails across the car in the same arc as the top of the car, so the letters remain equidistant from the top plate all the way across the car.  This creates a bit of an optical illussion making it seem more like a fishbelly side, but you can see how much white space there is under the lettering at the end of the car versus how much there is at the center of the car to get a feel for how much more dimensional meat there is at the center of the car.


BTW, the MTL image also has the cart riding on top the flats' side members (rather than the actual deck). Nah-uh!

[thomasjmdavis]

Here is a link to drawings of a Warren Car- shows the side as 2'1" on the ends and 2'5" in the center.  This is much less than I thought based on some pics (as sirenworks points out, many are taken on an angle, which may accentuate the curvature).  It notes that the curve on the downside is more pronounced than the curve on the top edge.

http://circusmodelbuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Plan-0171-Warren-Flat-Car.pdf

Looking at this and the MT artwork, I think they got it right.  I'll be in for a set sooner or later.

Tom D