Long Island Passenger cars

[jmlaboda]

The Smithtown appears to be a variant of the "P58" coach, basically a shortened version of the "P70".  It is not on the roster that I have but likely was a parlor car which was later rebuilt as a coach.  The roof differences is because the car it is coupled to is an MP54 with a clerestory roof, which was considerably lower to provide room for the pantographs.  PRR only had one coach similar to this and it had lower vestibule doors than this car.  The 1651 now resides at the RR Museum of Pennsylvania, along with the prototype "P53" coach...

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/Q.htm#PRR1651

Long Island Model Works still has some N scale LIRR passenger equipment, although he is phasing out his N scale line.  He has had, in the past, some of the steam era equipment, although it was the MU equipment.

There were unpowered trailers built for the LI with the "round roof" as well, basically the remaining cars that were not rebuilt to being E.M.U. cars.  They were scattered through the 1 - 135 series, the 324 - 391 series and the 452 - 480 series.  I have scans of the RAILROAD magazine roster from April 1963, if anyone is interested.  Just PM me your email address and I will pass it on.  One thing to keep in mind, there are listings for "P70A" coaches but these were not like the PRR "P70" cars.

I wish that Concor would do their "P54" models in N... would be quite useful to modelers of the PRR, and to a lesser extent LI and Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Line.  Maybe if enough of us would email them that might get them to consider it but it is hard to say at this point if such might ever be possible, short of a Shapeways print.

Looks like a lighter shade of my PE cars, with some white on the window frames and an aluminum colored roof?

The window frames are aluminum as well.

As far as the ALCO FA unit histories go you can find a detailed history of each of the cars (yes, they were classified as cars since they did not move on their own) on the LI page linked to above.  A quick run-down of histories is below...

LI 600 ALCO FA2 ex-PC, nee-NYC
LI 601 - 606 ALCO FA2 ex-L&N
LI 607 - 610 ALCO FA2 ex-WM
LI 611 ALCO FA2 ex-BN, nee-SP&S
LI 612 - 616 ALCO FA1 ex-BN, nee-SP&S
LI 617, 618 ALCO FA1 ex-PC, nee-NH
LI 619 EMD F9A ex-MILW
LI 620  EMD F7A ex-MILW
LI 621 EMD F7A B&O

[jmlaboda]

This thread has sort of slipped out of sight since I last posted to it back on the 6th but I thought I would provide a list of cars that might be usable to create heavyweight trains, either in the original solid gray scheme (with silver window frames) or the gray and orange scheme which followed it.  Many of these cars also wore the later two-tone blue paint which was quite attractive itself.  Links for all of these shots can be found in the Passenger Car Photo Index's Long Island pages.  I am doing this as much for future modelers seeking this information as I am for the present.  I will also be including some roster information on diesel locomotives at the bottom of this entry.

As previously been mentioned the LI obtained a number of parlor and other cars in the late-50s/early-60s for upgrading accommodations on their many trains.  While some of these cars were used mostly in special trains they also appeared in regular Long Island trains, making for an interesting train that can be modeled using MicroTrains cars.  While most were former Pennsylvania cars there were cars Lackawanna that were also acquired after their use was discontinued on that line.  Many operated in their former colors for a period of time before being repainted to LI which could add some interest to the train consists.  And, while they were more so used on 1960s trains by using the right paint or paints it would easily create the feel of much earlier trains.  It is also worth noting that most of these cars survived to receive the light gray and blue window pant scheme that was applied later.  Not only did Plan 3416/3416A parlors get added to the roster but also some former Pullman sleepers were also added, which could help to break up the look of the trains.  The Plan 3410 and 3410A and Plan 3416 and 3416A cars were very close in appearance with only a few minor details being different.

Two of the earliest Plan 3416A Parlor - Drawing Room cars were acquired from the Lackawanna in 1958.  DL&W Virginia Dare and Julie Ward Howe became LI Hamptons and The Hampton in 1958, and then numbered and renamed 2011 Montauk and 2012 Shinnock in 1960 and 1961 respectively.  Both cars can be seen in the gray and orange scheme on Jack Deasy's great Long Island website.

In 1961 26 Plan 3416, 3416A and 3416E Parlor - Drawing Room cars were acquired from parent road PRR and placed into service.  They were as follows, with some notes on paint schemes worn included:

PRR 7055 Ames Plan 3416 to LI 2013 Peconic, in two-tone blue July 1962 at Jack's website.
PRR 7090 Lane Plan 3416 to LI  2014 Amagansett, two-tone blue in 1963 at Jack's website.
PRR 7100 Noel Plan 3416 to LI 2015 Cutchogue, two-tone blue July 4th, 1963 at Jack's website.
PRR 7065 Burgner Plan 3416 to LI 2016 Mattituck
PRR 7074 Fenns Plan 3416 to LI 2017 Aquebogue, two-tone blue March 1963 at Jack's website.
PRR 7079 Glade Plan 3416 to LI 2018 Quogue, two-tone blue May 1968 at Jack's website.
PRR 7104 Rolfe Plan 3416 to LI 2019 Moriches, two-tone blue July 1962 at Jack's website.
PRR 7060 Besco Plan 3416 to LI 2020 Patchogue, two-tone blue May 1966 at Jack's website.
PRR 7089 Kanty Plan 3416 to LI 2021 Ronkonkoma, two-tone blue July 1962 at Jack's website.
PRR 7054 Alpha Plan 3416 to LI 2022 Islip, two-tone blue July 1962 at Jack's website.
PRR 7071 Eaton Plan 3416 to LI 2023 Wyandanch, two-tone blue August 1962 at Jack's website.
PRR 7073 Elizabeth Cady Stanton Plan 3416 to LI 2024 Copiague
PRR 7081 Greer Plan 3416 to LI 2025 Commack
PRR 7082 Grove Plan 3416 to LI 2026 Massapequa, two-tone blue July 1962 at Jack's website.
PRR 7087 James Wilson Plan 3416E to LI 2027 Merrick, two-tone blue March 1964 at Jack's website.
PRR 7087 James Wilson Plan 3416 to LI 2028 Wantagh
PRR 7113 Susan B. Anthony Plan 3416 to LI 2028 Wantagh
PRR 7091 Ledy Plan 3416 to LI 2029
PRR 7096 Lucretia Mott Plan 3416 to LI 2030 Mineola, two-tone blue July 1962 at Jack's website.
PRR 7097 Markel Plan 3416 to LI 2031 Nissequogue, two-tone blue February 1966 at Jack's website.
PRR 7067 Curtis Bay Plan 3416A to LI 2040 Asharoken
PRR 7070 Dora Plan 3416 to LI 2041 Mastic
PRR 7080 Glen Osborne Plan 3416A to LI  2042 Sagtikos, two-tone blue February 1968 at Jack's website.
PRR 7083 Haines Plan 3416 to LI 2043 Matinecock
PRR 7084 Hazel Dell Plan 3416A to LI 2044 Noyack
PRR 7102 Quaker Valley Plan 3416 to LI 2045 Wauwepex
PRR 7110 Spring Meadow Plan 3416A to LI 2046 Onteora, two-tone blue November 1964 at Bob Coolidge's website.
PRR 7115 Trindle Spring Plan 3416A to LI 2047 Teckaitha, two-tone blue June 1965 at Jack's website.

In addition to the parlor cars mentioned above three Plan 3410 and 3410A 12 Section - Drawing Room sleepers were also acquired and classified as "Club Cars" by the Long Island.  I do not know why they were classified as "Club Cars" lest it was something to do with the layout of the cars...

PRR 8872 McEwen Plan 3410 to LI class "P74" 2001 Syosset, in gray and orange at RR Picture Archives, June 1971.
PRR 8736 Belfast Plan 3410A to LI class "P74" 2002 Oyster Bay, in gray on Jack LI website, January 1959 and still in gray in a shot from August 1970.
PRR 8968 J. Finley Wilson Plan 3410 to LI class "P74" 2003 South Shore, in gray July 4th, 1963, on Jack's LI website.

The Long Island's diesel locomotive roster was vast and varied, with a lot of variety.  Minority builders made up most of the locomotive fleet while ALCO was the best represented.  The following is a summary of LI's diesel roster, based on what is available in N-scale...

LI 400  GE 44-Ton  Bachmann
LI 446 - 449  ALCO S2  Atlas
LI 451 - 460  ALCO S2  Atlas
LI 461 - 469  ALCO RS1  Atlas
LI 1501, 1052  FM H16-44  Atlas
LI 1503  FM H15-44 (former FM demo, upgraded to 1600 HP)  Atlas
LI 1504 - 1509  FM H16-44  Atlas
LI 1519, 1520  ALCO RS2  Kato
LI  1551 - 1560  ALCO RS3  Atlas

[dougnelson]

Hi John:

Here are a few photos of my N scale LIRR Cannonball.  Coaches are Rivarossi heavyweight coach and Lima/Model Power P70, the observation car Jamaica is a Lima/Model Power heavyweight observation, and the BM60 is a JNJ brass sides on a shorty Bachmann coach body.  The C-Liners are reworked Atlas 5-axle locos.  This was subject of my Oct. 2006 article in Model Railroader.  The Route of the Dashing Dan and the Weekend Warrior.







Doug Nelson

[garethashenden]

Those Alco FAs were former New Haven units.

Rapido definitely is making the Pullman Bradley coach in N, hopefully by the end of this year, so grabbing some undecs and painting them LIRR is a good option.

Aren't Rapido doing LIRR cars? N Scale Supply has them listed...

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Damn Doug, those look great.

I love the paint job they used on their FMs. With the ship's prow nose, they really do look like battleships.

[up1950s]

The following is a summary of LI's diesel roster, based on what is available in N-scale...

LI 400  GE 44-Ton  Bachmann
LI 446 - 449  ALCO S2  Atlas
LI 451 - 460  ALCO S2  Atlas
LI 461 - 469  ALCO RS1  Atlas
LI 1501, 1052  FM H16-44  Atlas
LI 1503  FM H15-44 (former FM demo, upgraded to 1600 HP)  Atlas
LI 1504 - 1509  FM H16-44  Atlas
LI 1519, 1520  ALCO RS2  Kato
LI  1551 - 1560  ALCO RS3  Atlas

Walthers did a GP-38 in wave a while back IIRC

also

Save your money if you are modeling a later era for these

[jmlaboda]

Walthers did a GP-38 in wave a while back IIRC

But if you go back the topic was about heavyweight type cars and while the C420s at least did haul some heavyweights (nearly all survived into their era) you would be hard pressed to justify a GP38-2 except by saying "Its my railroad and I will run what I want."  Painted in the later light gray and blue window stripe they would look really good behind either unit.

One error I need to fix... ALCO RS2s 1519 and 1520 were ex-Delaware & Husdon units that were rebult by D&H with the battery boxes raised to the short hood end of the units, making them very much like an RS3 Phase Ib with two stanchions on the battery box.  Here is a link to LI 1519 that shows how both
units looked...

http://rr-fallenflags.org/li/li1519azc.jpg



Love that FM CPA-20-5, it looks great!!!

Two more cars to add... the Hells Gate Models B60b can be used for express and newspaper service and were numbered originally in the 715 - 724 block but later renumbered to 7715, 7716, 7719 - 7724, and I have found a very small group of "P70a" cars that I suspect could be modeled with the MP or Lima coach, which were numbered between 809 and 833,  which I suspect were later renumbered in the 8500-series though I have no firm info available as to what their numbers actually were.  I do know one was numbered 8524, above some former Maine Central, Boston & Albany and Delaware & Husdon coaches that were acquired and numbered in the 8500-series.

Speaking of the "P70" coaches while shots of the cars themselves are hard to find I did find a really nice shot of an ALCO RS1 hauling a string of "P70" coaches painted gray... (the shot on George Elwood's great Falling Flags site, a part of Gary Everhart Collection)



I think it is fair to say that no matter what a person chooses to do as far as locomotives and cars go the Long Island IS a road well worth modeling, especially so if you are a passenger train fan.  Its operation were unique and plentiful and a layout based on it, be it a branch or a mainline, would be well worth modeling.

[Lemosteam]

Damn Doug, those look great.

I love the paint job they used on their FMs. With the ship's prow nose, they really do look like battleships.

e

+1. REALLY nocDoug!

[Lemosteam]

But if you go back the topic was about heavyweight type cars and while the C420s at least did haul some heavyweights (nearly all survived into their era) you would be hard pressed to justify a GP38-2 except by saying "Its my railroad and I will run what I want."  Painted in the later light gray and blue window stripe they would look really good behind either unit.

One error I need to fix... ALCO RS2s 1519 and 1520 were ex-Delaware & Husdon units that were rebult by D&H with the battery boxes raised to the short hood end of the units, making them very much like an RS3 Phase Ib with two stanchions on the battery box.  Here is a link to LI 1519 that shows how both
units looked...

http://rr-fallenflags.org/li/li1519azc.jpg



Love that FM CPA-20-5, it looks great!!!

Two more cars to add... the Hells Gate Models B60b can be used for express and newspaper service and were numbered originally in the 715 - 724 block but later renumbered to 7715, 7716, 7719 - 7724, and I have found a very small group of "P70a" cars that I suspect could be modeled with the MP or Lima coach, which were numbered between 809 and 833,  which I suspect were later renumbered in the 8500-series though I have no firm info available as to what their numbers actually were.  I do know one was numbered 8524, above some former Maine Central, Boston & Albany and Delaware & Husdon coaches that were acquired and numbered in the 8500-series.

Speaking of the "P70" coaches while shots of the cars themselves are hard to find I did find a really nice shot of an ALCO RS1 hauling a string of "P70" coaches painted gray... (the shot on George Elwood's great Falling Flags site, a part of Gary Everhart Collection)



I think it is fair to say that no matter what a person chooses to do as far as locomotives and cars go the Long Island IS a road well worth modeling, especially so if you are a passenger train fan.  Its operation were unique and plentiful and a layout based on it, be it a branch or a mainline, would be well worth modeling.

Jerry LOTS of great info here!  Thank you.  I an still a bit bewildered as to what cars (and their paint) would have been run on the LIRR during its steam period? I've heard of the Tichy scheme, which I think is the blue and aluminum, and the Longfellow schemes blue with the Orange ends.  Dougs equipment, while transition era, was more likely from the early sixties, as were the Dashing Dan logos on his cars.

Would they simply have been PRR Tuscan with "Long Island" in PRR font knowing that most of the cars were PENNSY stock?

[chicken45]

Wow, you guys. Just wow.
Nice modeling @dougnelson and great info @jmlaboda !!

[up1950s]

That green on the RS-1 , might that be the same green that the PRR used DLGE or whatever it was , I can never remember the acronym or what it stands for .

[chicken45]

That green on the RS-1 , might that be the same green that the PRR used DLGE or whatever it was , I can never remember the acronym or what it stands for .

Just remember DG for Dark Green Locomotive Enamel.

[dougnelson]

Those p70s look red to me, not gray??  They also appear to be lettered PENNSYLVANIA not LONG ISLAND.

[Lemosteam]

Jmlaboda is there any indication of when the RS1 pic was taken? Thier older diesels leased a long time, so I don't want to assume transition, just because it's an rs1.

Likewise the blue and silver coaches in my pic above.  Well the LIRR #39 survives so that could also be a sixties era excursion, when I think about it.

[jmlaboda]

Jmlaboda is there any indication of when the RS1 pic was taken?

I have found a date for the above shot, on RR Picture Archives.  It is dated June 1950.

Those p70s look red to me, not gray??  They also appear to be lettered PENNSYLVANIA not LONG ISLAND.

Enlarging it does barely show that the lettering is longer than what "Long Island" would be and I, too, suspect that they were PRR, not LI... shucks!!!  Something to keep in mind is that before the gray scheme the LI painted their cars in tuscan red with gold lettering, like its parent PRR.  A shot of one of the old cars, repainted for the Bi-Centennial in tuscan red and gold, can be seen here.  Here are a couple more links showing the "as built" paint scheme, the first is dated 1949 while the second is also June 1950...

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirr%20engines/RS1-462-Original%20Colors-Sunnyside-LICity-2-26-49-Votava.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3865664

The RS1s lasted a long time, a lot longer than the other early diesels which were trade-in fodder for the C420 fleet.  Here is a link to a shot of a few of them on their way to their gallows, err... scrapping...

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1401965