Fox Valley SD70ACE Totally Worth the wait!!!!!

[Leggy]

If the windows were wider the FVM would take the cake, so close yet so far...

[peteski]

I'm still waiting for Ian to elaborate on just exactly what he meant when he said "Kato needs to stop designing it's diesels based on 20 year old ideas..."     Seems that other then the handrail color being slightly off, Kato's version is the superior model.

[sizemore]

The Kato takes the cake for me. Handrails can be repainted, or replaced completely, some slick etchings could fix it.

The S.

[ednadolski]

Just for you Ed...    

http://nscalesupply.com/fvm/FVM-SD70ACe.HTML

A&M, MRL, BNSF, and UP...   

Brian

Thank you!    It is nice to see something that does not need the grabirons & windshield wipers shaved off of it!  Hopefully the LEZ couplers won't be too hard to fit.... guess I'd better get started on some EMD pilots... 

But what's up with all the "air space" between the trucks and the frame?  Is that just the illustrations, or is the model actually like that?

Ed

[wcfn100]

Thank you!    It is nice to see something that does not need the grabirons & windshield wipers shaved off of it! 

It this point, if that Reading unit is an example of what to expect, I'd be more worried about having to repaint the whole thing. 


Jason

[learmoia]

I'm still waiting for Ian to elaborate on just exactly what he meant when he said "Kato needs to stop designing it's diesels based on 20 year old ideas..."     Seems that other then the handrail color being slightly off, Kato's version is the superior model.

I have to retract my statement to a certain extent.

The 20 year old (actually 25 year old) design idea I was refering to was the single piece handrail-walkway-steps that snaps into the pilot-side sill piece.
The design was (correct me if I'm wrong) first introduced on the Kato SD40 (1990) Atlas (Kato) U25B (1989)

The design method is GOOD.. very clever and very sturdy (Much better than methods used on the RS3 or GP38/50. )

The cons (in my opinion) were..
Loss prototype accuracy in regard to one piece plastic leading to inaccurate colors. (Red Handrail leads to Red steps which should be black)

My 'most recent' Kato purchase was the SD80MAC which used this design:

see end steps

Looking at diagrams - The design continued through he SD70 and SD70M/MAC

In the Mid-2000s - some tweaking to this design allowed flexibility in the coloring schemes.

Kato still suffers from off color handrails, and mis-matched colors which comes from not painting your handrails in the mfg process.  And require painting if your picky about that sort of things.. (Kato models with painted handrails and walkways look GREAT!

I still believe Kato's current designs are improvements based on an an old (yet good) design.

Kato's design is perfectly acceptable when you're the only game in town on a particular model.

I'm not saying the Kato model is 'bad'.. The point I was trying to make.. When faced head to head by a competing model that features correctly painted handrails, coupler cut levers, snow plow grab irons, the Kato model looks (in my opinion) 'train set'ish.

The Reading model doesn't show this as much as say the Wabash, Lackawanna,  and CNJ, Erie.



Ohh yeah.. and then there is the rear ditch lights.. 

~Ian

[peteski]

Thanks for the clarification Ian.  I see your point.

I agree that Kato could do a better job color-matching the handrails. But painted ones aren't perfect either. First in N scale paint adds thickness to already-oversize handrails, Then there is the possibility of the paint chipping off the slippery handrail plastic.  TO me neither method is perfect.


But overall, to me it seems that the cab is more accurate on Kato version.   But for rear ditch lights FVM is the clear winner.  Neither model is ideal.

[learmoia]

Thanks for the clarification Ian.  I see your point.

I agree that Kato could do a better job color-matching the handrails. But painted ones aren't perfect either. First in N scale paint adds thickness to already-oversize handrails, Then there is the possibility of the paint chipping off the slippery handrail plastic.  TO me neither method is perfect.


But overall, to me it seems that the cab is more accurate on Kato version.   But for rear ditch lights FVM is the clear winner.  Neither model is ideal.

This is the quandary of having competing MFGs doing the same model.. Each MFG takes their own liberties in design, which results in two different visions of the same prototype.

FVM built a model from the ground up and therefore added rear ditchlights.  They focused attention to paint and printing.

Kato's version is built on a previous model which was designed around on 40 years of proven/tested experience.

(Not to say that FVM doesn't have experience designing models, I'm sure they will refine their designs as time goes on, and they also have to make sure they don't flat out copy the glass insert designs that allows Kato to have prototypical cab windows)

Athearn / MTH / Bachmann have the same quandary in HO Scale...

~Ian

[ns737]

I can add rear ditch lights to the kato model easily. fixing the fvm cab would be very hard. I will go with kato.

[Scottl]

I second that.  Both nice models, but I can work with handrail colour and ditchlights.

[flight2000]

So what's the verdict on the mechanism and drive train?  Looks are one thing, but under the hood matters too... 

Do the trucks randomly fall out if you look at it wrong when you pick it up like the Kato SD70ACe's and SD40-2 Mid's?

Cheers,
Brian

[High Hood]

Compared to my FVM GEVOs they are much quieter and smoother to me.  I think they are much improved over the GEVOs, and the trucks havn't fell out either!  Also I just don't see a big difference with the windshield, maybe I just can't see it like some of you guys can.  They look fine to me but Kato's and FVM's ACes do look a little different overall though.

[mcjaco]

Talked to Matt at RPM this past weekend about the handrails on the Reading unit.  He was adamant that they were correct.  They're painted the same color as the safety striping, and the stanchions are not. 

[Matt Noel]

See what You guys mean about the windshield, they aren't big enough.  I do prefer the FV ACE over the Kato because it will be easy to detail and I personally think it runs better. It speed matched right up with my FV Gevos.  I do love the fact you get a choice in who's Ace you want, something HO scalers enjoy. I'm looking forward to the other variations of this engine, its one of my favorites.

[peteski]

I do prefer the FV ACE over the Kato because it will be easy to detail and I personally think it runs better. It speed matched right up with my FV Gevos.

Hmm, better than Katos? I find that hard to believe (no I don't own the FVM version, but I own many Kato locos). To me the Chinese made locos aren't quite made to the same precision of made in Japan Katos. 

As far as speed matching goes, sure it will match better with other FVM units than pairing a Kato with a FVM.  Katos are notoriously fast locos (I'm resigned to that fact at this point and it doesn't bother me).  Anyway, with DCC the speed matching (even of different manufacturer's locos) is quite painless.