Custom decal questions and thoughts

[PiperguyUMD]

So I'm sitting at my workbench with a fresh WM H9 consolidation shell from shapeways on my work bench and it hits me.  All the models that people can produce with 3D printing will only be limited by what decals are available.  I have the means to produce all the WM steam that I could ever want and no freaking decals!  I'm sure many of you guys who are in 3D printing have had this same ah-ha moment.  Now, I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this, but why couldn't someone with the appropriate hardware use the shapeways model to print decals?  Establish a standard format for artwork, allow your customers to upload their own artwork, charge them a flat printing fee, and a week later the customer gets their decals in the mail.  This could be expanded far beyond the model railroad industry, and I'm sure could be quite lucrative.  I realize that there are a few custom printers out there, which brings me to my questions.

1. What software are you guys using to draw your own decals?  Now to throw a wrench in the works - I'm a Mac guy.  Any suggestions?  Are their any free or inexpensive options here?

2.  Who are the custom printers out there?  What are your experiences with them?

3.  What file types do these printers support?

4.  If someone takes my idea and hits the big time, I'll take a 6 pack of the best craft brew you can find and WM steam era decals for life! 

Thanks!

[pjm20]

4.  If someone takes my idea and hits the big time, I'll take a 6 pack of the best craft brew you can find and WM steam era decals   

Thanks!

+1

[sirenwerks]

I'm a PC... guy, but there's Inkscape for the Mac environment.  It's a vector graphics editor.

[Scottl]

I've been using Inkscape for about six months and it is now my go to for most everything.  Mac or PC, it is a solution to consider and the price is right.

[peteski]

I'm lucky (or is it unlucky  ) enough to own an Alps MicroDry printer, so 99% of my decal needs are satisfied right at my workbench. I said 99% becasue while Alps has is a CYMK printer (with extra capabilities), it uses rather coarse halftoning. So, it is unable to easily reproduce many colors with a quality suitable for N scale decals.  Alps-printed decals, compared to commercially-printed decals, also have their own set of problems.

For artwork I exclusively use Corel Draw (and sometimes PhotoPaint).  I have not tried other vector graphic editors because I'm simply comfortable with a program I have been using for over 15 years (and it is relatively inexpensive to purchase). I use a relatively old versions, but even those have way more power and capabilities to produce decal artwork.

As far as printers go, that is one thing that is the real problem.  The printer has to be capable of producing multiple overlapping layers of waterproof inks on the decal paper.  There are some printers that can do that, but they are quite expensive and the printing resolution is too coarse and/or the inks are very thick.

Just as an example, the inkjet printer which Micro-trains started using recently to print decorations directly on their models is capable of all the functions required for printing decals(white ink, overlaying ink layers, etc.). But IMO, the ink is just too thick and the resolution is not high enough for quality decals.  I'm not even sure of that type of printer could be adapted for printing decals, but I don't see why not.  Its resolution is also not high enough for small lettering (like dimensional data in N scale).  I'm pretty sure that their printer cost lots of money and that the consumables are probably also very pricey.  Most printers that are have the capabilities for printing decals are also large-format printers, which makes them unsuitable for small custom decal runs.

I belong to couple of groups dedicated to Alps printers (about 4000 members each), and since Alps printers are slowly disappearing, this topic comes up regularly (without coming up with any viable solutions).  Alps printers are still used by many small decal manufacturing business, and they all are seeing that they will not be able to use Alps printers indefinitely.

[mmagliaro]

By "use the Shapeways model", do you just mean the merchandising model of letting people upload their art,
and having some service print decals from it?

That already exists, really.  Most of the custom decal makers will work this way.   You send them art and then print your
decals.  Even Microscale works this way.  I just had my SP&S decals made by Microscale
by sending them my art. 

I suppose there would be a benefit in automating the process so you could upload art through a website and pay,
and then get your decals (not unlike how CafePress or Zazzle work). 

As for art: the good places want vector art files (i.e. CorelDraw, or AdobeIllustrator).  Inkscape is a freeware
version of something like that.

As for experiences, I contacts a lot of people about getting mine done.  Some said they were afraid they couldn't
print lettering as small as I needed.  One sent me a test print, saying that my hi-res JPEG was fine, and the decals
were worse than me just printing my JPEG on paper here at home!   I must say, I am very pleased with what Microscale
did for me.  The results are top notch, and they worked a lot with me on improving my artwork and locating
better versions of the numbering.  I could never have gotten my sheet as good as it is without their help.

[tom mann]

Yeah, I was about to say that MicroScale pretty much does this.

However, if you can do the artwork, you certainly can do the printing yourself (unless you need light colors on a dark background).  Some quick rules of thumb:

1.  Use a laser for ultimate sharp printing at small sizes, without the need to seal the decal sheet.  Laser toner doesn't bleed when wet.
2.  Use a nice color printer to avoid halftone patterns in anything but black text.  You'll have to seal the printed product, but the smooth colors are worth it.
3.  Anything that requires light colors pretty much has to be done by someone with an Alps or a service like MicroScale.

Here is an example of the quality of a nice ink jet that I put together a few years ago:



(wow, this was 2008?!)

[PiperguyUMD]

By "use the Shapeways model", do you just mean the merchandising model of letting people upload their art,
and having some service print decals from it?

We'll not only that, spout having an online market place where people are able to sell their designs.  I suppose this might create legal issues for anyone wanting to print any decals pertaining to any of the roads merged into CSX or UP. Might there be some way around this?

[peteski]

We'll not only that, spout having an online market place where people are able to sell their designs.  I suppose this might create legal issues for anyone wanting to print any decals pertaining to any of the roads merged into CSX or UP. Might there be some way around this?

Yes, today's litigious society makes ventures like that quite problematic and ripe for a lawsuit.  That includes both decal images even the entire scale models of the vehicles.

[PiperguyUMD]

Yes, today's litigious society makes ventures like that quite problematic and ripe for a lawsuit.  That includes both decal images even the entire scale models of the vehicles.

Interesting. I'm surprised this hasn't had an impact on the 3D printing crowd. Quick!  Delete this thread before UP's attorneys see it