Z Conrail N20

[Jesse6669]

For my second Z scale project I wanted to push it a little and see what I can do with finer details.  I was somewhat surprised at how thin I could make the handrails on the gondola while still being robust enough to withstand handling.  Part of this, of course is the resin I'm using--Phrozen RPG gray--which I'm quite impressed with so far.  But I want to see how it handles more complex handrails since I want to print Z scale locomotives at some point.   

Given that my layout features former Conrail trackage I can justify a Conrail caboose.  I decided the former Reading N20 class, an International Car Co wide vision caboose, would be a good test.  Someone has one on Thingverse so at first I was just going to try print that.  It's not a bad design, but after downloading it and a)having to contend with some weird gaps in the mesh and b)not being satisfied with the overall design and detail-- I just went from scratch and designed my own.  Besides, that's half the fun     This is a two-part design--the underframe is removable to add windows, weight, and perhaps even interior detail.   I need to get some clear resin and do windows.   

This pic shows one of the later test prints (3rd?) note handrail fidelity is pretty good--the visible bumps are where some light supports were added.  These imperfections can be sanded a bit more and will cover with paint.
   

After some feedback (thanks @Ed Kapuscinski ) from posting in the Weekend Update I re-did some of the proportions (cupola, windows) to better capture the prototype.   

 

The rear (left) handrails didn't survive the de-support process, but that was my fault because one of the supports added in Lychee Slicer for the roof was too close to the handrails and bonded to them.  Note the anti-skid diamond tread is visible on the porch.  The caboose trucks are slightly modified ones I found on Thingverse and re-scaled to Z, with Full Throttle wheelsets.   I'm going to do Conrail decals but it wouldn't be hard to back-date the model with it's original windows and make a Reading version, and CSX has used the ex-CR ones as well. 


 

[Lemosteam]

If you do an PRR N8, they will come.

[Jesse6669]

If you do an PRR N8, they will come.

Like this?  https://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/photos/cr-23202-class-n8-0

[Lemosteam]

Yes. Especially if you scale it to N afterward, lol.

[ednadolski]

What is that coupler?

[Jesse6669]

Yes. Especially if you scale it to N afterward, lol.

I'll see what I can do.  The N20 took about a week, the N8 shouldn't be hard. 

What is that coupler?

   
My "CCE coupler" (a T-scale coupler) revised for Z scale.  It's basically a split-shank, non-automatic, non-self-centering coupler.  I haven't really vetted it for use (in Z; in T-scale it worked but I didn't do any switching), but it looks pretty good.   

[Jesse6669]

Question for the "powers that be"--Should I post this in the scratch building folder (same goes for the Gon series) instead of 3D printing?

[ednadolski]

My "CCE coupler" (a T-scale coupler) revised for Z scale.  It's basically a split-shank, non-automatic, non-self-centering coupler.  I haven't really vetted it for use (in Z; in T-scale it worked but I didn't do any switching), but it looks pretty good.   

Yes it looks quite good (and I bet it does not slinky).   Is this the right one:

https://www.gktrains.com/product/cce-models-t-scale-1-450-1001-snap-in-cce-coupler-assortment/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116223283823

Ed

[Jesse6669]

Yes it looks quite good (and I bet it does not slinky).   Is this the right one:

https://www.gktrains.com/product/cce-models-t-scale-1-450-1001-snap-in-cce-coupler-assortment/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116223283823

Ed

Kinda sorta.  As I said it's revised for Z, more detail but same principle.   

Interestingly I have no idea who GK Trains is;  Fusion does have some stock (at least they did) but I haven't made any  T stuff since early last year.   

Here's another shot of the Z couplers in draft gear:    [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[Jesse6669]

I made some additional adjustments to the design and added some details to the body and underframe.   The version pictured isn't actually the most recent iteration; the current has some added grabs inside the porch, taller roof ribs and a couple things on the underframe.  But I think it's getting "close enough".  I find I sometimes just revise designs ad infinitum and never get the model made (and instead produce a lot of "2nds").    I do need a plan for the windows;  I've had good success 3D printing in clear but I may try the old decal film trick and see how it looks.     

   

I'm testing an all-Tamiya mixture of Conrail blue on one of the 2nds.  The mix is 2 parts blue (XF8) 2 parts white (XF2) and 1 part medium blue (XF18).  Seems pretty close.  I took the dropper sample from the photo on a section that was repainted.     

[robert3985]

I made some additional adjustments to the design and added some details to the body and underframe.   The version pictured isn't actually the most recent iteration; the current has some added grabs inside the porch, taller roof ribs and a couple things on the underframe.  But I think it's getting "close enough".  I find I sometimes just revise designs ad infinitum and never get the model made (and instead produce a lot of "2nds").    I do need a plan for the windows;  I've had good success 3D printing in clear but I may try the old decal film trick and see how it looks.     

   

I'm testing an all-Tamiya mixture of Conrail blue on one of the 2nds.  The mix is 2 parts blue (XF8) 2 parts white (XF2) and 1 part medium blue (XF18).  Seems pretty close.  I took the dropper sample from the photo on a section that was repainted.     

Lookin' really good!

As for windows, what's the prob with .005" clear Styrene?  I don't know what your body's wall thickness is, but if you're worried about the windows looking too far inward (the body walls looking too thick) if you just canopy-cement some strips of .005" clear Styrene to the inside, then I would suggest that you create a rectangular "thin portion" surrounding your windows on the inside for the thick Styrene to lay in, which will both thin up the body wall around the windows and help position the cut .005" clear Styrene. This is what I'm going to do on my N-scale UP Caboose prints.

As for color.  I struggled with UP Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Grey for a couple of years, attempting to use color photos, both printed from negatives and four-color process pics from books.  I had pretty good success if I personally took the photos and included an 18% Grey Kodak Neutral Test Card (8X10) in the photo, but still, variations in time of day, direction of light, state of the weather, etc., etc., made the process virtually impossible to get "right".

So, I decided to airbrush several brands' Armour Yellow, and Harbor Mist Grey on 5X7 pieces of grey-primed white Styrene, and go down to the UP Riverdale Yard, talk with the yardmaster and see if I could be allowed to climb up on several UP engines and compare my color samples with newly painted and weathered engines.

I found that Scalecoat 2 was the most accurate for both "new" Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Grey, with Testor's Accu-Flex coming in a close second for both colors, the Harbor Mist Grey being noticeably too light.  Floquil and Pollyscale were both waaaay off, both being flat, the Armour Yellow being much too brownish and much too light for a much faded look, and their Harbor Mist Grey being way too light and too cool.

However, there was an old, faded and dirty SD40-2 parked next to the newly painted engines, and the best match for it was both Floquil and Pollyscale interestingly.

My findings for the "best" color for newly painted engines in UP colors was Scalecoat 2, and is still what I use when painting my UP Armour Yellow engines, then "fading" the color with "dust" to the extent I want.

What this story illustrates is that although I am a pro photographer, and was able to request custom prints from my lab using the photographed 18% grey card included in my own photographs, I never got a "correct" UP color in my photos which I felt I could use as an accurate reference...and the 4-color process color photos in books and magazines were virtually useless.

Soooo...using a color photo you found as a reference for achieving accurate color won't get you there, unless you're plain old lucky.

However, at a real paint store (not at Lowe's, THD, WalMart, Ace Hardware, etc.) if you can find the specifications somewhere for the color paint you want to match (for instance UP Armour Yellow has four references (1) RGB Values are 230, 154, and 44, (2) the HEX Value is #E69A2C, (3) the LRV is 40.22%, and finally (4) The DuPont Number and Name are No. 93-3421 Dulux Yellow Enamel), maybe with a bit of research online, you would be able to find exactly what color of blue your caboose was painted along with its references, paint brand and actual paint name.  I'd have them mix up a pint of it, spray it on a primered piece of Styrene and then use that accurate reference to mix my model paint correctly to.

From an effort vs reward standpoint, probably you are the only one who will recognize right off that the color is "correct"...for a brand-new caboose just out of the paint shop...and, if you decide to weather it up, then having it "close" is probably good enough.  However, I think there's high satisfaction in knowing you got the color exactly correct because it's the way I feel when painting my UP models.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Jesse6669]

As for windows, what's the prob with .005" clear Styrene?  I don't know what your body's wall thickness is, but if you're worried about the windows looking too far inward (the body walls looking too thick) if you just canopy-cement some strips of .005" clear Styrene to the inside, then I would suggest that you create a rectangular "thin portion" surrounding your windows on the inside for the thick Styrene to lay in, which will both thin up the body wall around the windows and help position the cut .005" clear Styrene. This is what I'm going to do on my N-scale UP Caboose prints.

Thanks Bob, I might give that styrene in layers a try.  I find the "flush and flat" look can really make or break the appearance of the windows so the stepping (whether 2 parts styrene or printed) really helps.  The concave tendency of Krystal Klear precludes that for me.

The CR blue mix in the pic seems (to me) like it needs a little violet-- but as you say lighting and weathering/fading all play such a big role that unless it's brand-new out of the shop caboose it's a bit of a crap shoot.  I know a modeler who swears that paint chips are worthless, it's all about scale color appearance.  But not to stir the pot on this as it could evolve into it's own thread.  Meantime.. I'll keep tinkering. 

[peteski]

I know a modeler who swears that paint chips are worthless, it's all about scale color appearance. 

Now you know two. 

Well, paint chips aren't totally worthless. They give a rough approximation of the color one's shooting for.  And yes, "scale color" is a thing in some modeling circles.

[robert3985]

Now you know two. 

Well, paint chips aren't totally worthless. They give a rough approximation of the color one's shooting for.  And yes, "scale color" is a thing in some modeling circles.

Hmmm...I don't want to get too far off topic, but the concept of "scale color" intrigues me, as opposed to "actual color".  Shouldn't they be the same??

I would appreciate a definition and/or explanation please.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Hmmm...I don't want to get too far off topic, but the concept of "scale color" intrigues me, as opposed to "actual color".  Shouldn't they be the same??

I would appreciate a definition and/or explanation please.

To be more accurate it is the "scale effect" that applies to a paint's color depending on the model's scale.  I recently mentioned it in this post. There is a link in that post which points to more information about the scale effect.