Esu loksound v5 micro issue.

[Vaderta]

I will be interested to see when you finish up the locomotive.  Should sound good with the custom enclosure.

As I said running the speaker with just the flat enclosure won't make for the most optimal condition for the speaker to perform its best. But I think when the shell is put on the locomotive it is satisfactory, at least for me running on a home layout. If I was at a club and had other locomotives running and a large room. It probably would be a different story. But having other locomotives with large enclosures I can see the comparison.  Sometimes if the train is very loud it almost doesn't match the scale of the train. You have a tiny train and the sound is like a jet airliner on take off. It sounds good but I usually turn those volumes down as they are just too loud to listen to for an extended period of time. But as we mentioned before, everyone likes things a little different than the next guy, which is what makes this hobby interesting.

[peteski]

It is not really about the volume. Sound volume is just one of the things that the enclosure improves.  Since the sound waves from the front and back of the speaker cancel each other without enclosure (especially at lower frequencies), the sound of a speaker in proper enclosure is much fuller and richer.

If the sound is too loud, you can always lower the volume (either the master volume or volumes of individual sounds like engine, horn, bell, etc.).

[Vaderta]

I agree with you that you get better sound and maybe fuller sound. I guess the real question is how good is good enough. With the Lokprogrammer you essentially have an equalizer that allows you to adjust to an extent the fullness of the sound through bass settings treble settings etc. It is a cell phone speaker designed to work well in a confined space. I will also say the sound file that you select also greatly impacts what the final result  sounds like. I have downloaded files that are definitely better quality files than others and that can impact the final result. In the end the quality of sound can only be so good with a single speaker which is why multiple speakers are used in home sound systems. You have speakers designed specifically for treble bass and mid range. We essentially are trying to make a single cell phone speaker do the job of all of those which comes back to . How good is good enough. I won't argue that a larger enclosure helps the speaker sound some better. I guess it all comes down to what you like and how good is good enough.

[peteski]

Back in my 20s, I had a Chevy Camaro with couple of Pioneer 6x9 speakers mounted in the package shelf.  Since they were mounted in the openings in the package shelf (which acted as a baffle), the trunk acted as their enclosure and they produced pretty decent bass. Some of my friends had the similar speakers just sitting on top of the package shelf, and they could not produce any decent lower frequency sound, regardless of how they adjusted they 10 band graphic equalizer.

Sound quality and fidelity is very much in the ears (or actually the brain) of the beholder, but if the speaker cannot produce enough of low frequency sounds (due to lack of proper enclosure), equalizer will not magically bring up the bass sounds when the speaker is incapable of producing them. However the important thing is that you find the sound satisfactory.

[Vaderta]

You are comparing a 6X9 speaker and a trunk and probably a 100 watt amp because that was the hot setup in those days to an 11mm x 15 mm speaker. It has a tiny enclosure. Not a fair comparison. Also you are discounting that the body shell acts in the same way as your trunk. If you have your locomotive running with the shell off and then hold the shell over the frame as if you are about to put it on there is a difference in sound. At the end of the day you are happy with your results and that's great. My point of this back and forth is to not discourage other people into thinking that they are going to get crappy results if they don't mill their frames down to the rear worm gear support. Because I assure you most people are not going to be brave enough to do that. I conceded in my first post the enclosure helps. Not even denying that you will get better sound. Kato sound installing by Kobo doesn't do what you are doing yet many people buy their products and find them satisfactory.  So again I repeat my earlier point. Sometimes the sound is satisfactory without all the milling and building a custom sound enclosure.

[peteski]

You are comparing a 6X9 speaker and a trunk and probably a 100 watt amp because that was the hot setup in those days to an 11mm x 15 mm speaker. It has a tiny enclosure. Not a fair comparison. Also you are discounting that the body shell acts in the same way as your trunk. If you have your locomotive running with the shell off and then hold the shell over the frame as if you are about to put it on there is a difference in sound. At the end of the day you are happy with your results and that's great. My point of this back and forth is to not discourage other people into thinking that they are going to get crappy results if they don't mill their frames down to the rear worm gear support. Because I assure you most people are not going to be brave enough to do that. I conceded in my first post the enclosure helps. Not even denying that you will get better sound. Kato sound installing by Kobo doesn't do what you are doing yet many people buy their products and find them satisfactory.  So again I repeat my earlier point. Sometimes the sound is satisfactory without all the milling and building a custom sound enclosure.

Like I mentioned, sound is a very subjective matter, but regardless of the speaker size, if the front surface of the speaker's cone is not somehow isolated from the back side (even if the entire "bare" speaker sits in a cavity like the loco shell), the lower frequency sound will be sub-par.  Period.  Many will find that acceptable. I just wanted to point out that it is not an optimal setup. I guess at this point we likely both know that there is no point in me harping on what's (to me) obvious.  I'm sorry.

[Vaderta]

Pete, we never disagreed on the fact with the larger speaker enclosure the sound will be enhanced. But my point in all of this was to point out, especially with N scale. Sometimes in confined spaces you have to weigh the pros and cons in what you are doing. There are alot of people that are going to be hesitant to mill their frame in the manner that you have. Either for lack of tooling or being afraid of breaking the frame where the trucks attach as then you have to buy another locomotive. Yes you won't have the absolute best sound possible if you don't mill out your frame. But you will have a fine end result that still sounds good, especially as most people do run the F units in consists.  This wasn't a thread about right or wrong to me. This was a thread of two ways of going about something while still getting a good finished result.

[Vaderta]

Also to clarify, I am running an enclosure with the flat piece of plastic enclosure esu sells with their sugar cube speaker. I am not running the speaker in open air. It is the thickness of the foam adhesive and the flat esu piece to seal the enclosure. Not just a open speaker with no enclosure at all.

[peteski]

Also to clarify, I am running an enclosure with the flat piece of plastic enclosure esu sells with their sugar cube speaker. I am not running the speaker in open air. It is the thickness of the foam adhesive and the flat esu piece to seal the enclosure. Not just a open speaker with no enclosure at all.

Ok, that tiny enclosure does make a difference.  I think you mentioned that earlier but I wasn't sure what that meant.

[Vaderta]

Ok, now I am understanding. I agree 100% that if I ran a speaker not sealed it would sound bad. I should have made it more clear that the speaker was sealed, just a small enclosure.

Back to the main topic. I talked with Lee at ESU today. He told me to send the decoder in. When I told him what was happening  he is thinking the board is not fully seated to the decoder. He is thinking it is possible that the heat shrink they put over the boards could be preventing the board from seating properly. He said they will get it straightened out once I send it to them.

[peteski]

Back to the main topic. I talked with Lee at ESU today. He told me to send the decoder in. When I told him what was happening  he is thinking the board is not fully seated to the decoder. He is thinking it is possible that the heat shrink they put over the boards could be preventing the board from seating properly. He said they will get it straightened out once I send it to them.

I suspected that they would take care of this for you.   ESU's customer support is excellent.

[Vaderta]

Yes, Lee the gentleman I talked with sounded very nice and genuinely curious as to why the decoder was acting in the manner it was. He said it was not sounding like a typical problem. I almost think he was contemplating having me cut the clear heat shrink off, but then said I should just send it in. I think he feels pretty strong that the board just isn't seated properly.  I think he was thrown by the fact that once the decoder was recognized by the power cab it would run for hours without issue until it was powered off.

[GGNInNScale]

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Pete you are correct. I read this post after midnight and wasn't following he was referring to the motor leads. Those I solder directly to and only use the clip if I am trying to hold a board in place for a front light. I thought he was referring to something on the decoder he soldered to get rid of a bad connection.

I was, but did not elaborate.  I added a picture showing the various changes that I make.  I could not show all as some parts are glued in place, and I did not want to go back to the frame level.

[Vaderta]

Thanks, I believe I saw this in the installation thread. I will have to go and read through it again.