Esu loksound v5 micro issue.

[peteski]

While we have been discussing the problem, you didn't mention the specific decoder you are using.  Both the misbehaving micro and the latest nano. Which ones are they? How are they installed in the model?


I'm asking because in the more recent Kato F7 locos (like you have?), the ESU LokSound nano decoder comes installed onto the wide-body board.

If the decoder is defective, if you sent it to ESU for repair, even without warranty, they will fix/replace it for a nominal fee.  To find out what to do and the cost, call ESU's U.S. office.

ESU LLC
3625 Betty Dr Suite A
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80917
Telephone: +1 (570) 980-1980
Fax: +1 (866) 591-6440
sales@loksound.com
www.loksound.com

The ESU decoder issue you are alluding to was with a voltage regulator chip, resulting in a totally dead decoder.  Your problem sounds more like a cold solder joint causing intermittent connection.

[Vaderta]

Thanks for the information for ESU Pete.

The Micro that I have that was giving me a difficult time is part # 58823. The Nano that I replaced the Micro with is part # 58923. I hard wire the decoders into the Kato F units without a board like you have pictured. The Micro fits a little nicer as the stepped boards fit well over the gray pickup tower almost matching the profile of where I cut the factory DC board. The Nano doesn't fit as nice hard wired and I need to be careful that the shell does not push on the decoder and make contact with the rear flywheel. I wouldn't mind using one of those boards, but not sure of the cost and just not very familiar with all the items ESU offers.  Right now I am getting my decoder with speaker for just under $100. If the setup you have shown is in the ballpark I would probably like to try it out. Definitely a cleaner fit.

The decoder that was giving me issues. If I held it in my hand and squeezed it, the locomotive would be recognized. I re-did all my solder joints to make sure it wasn't error on my end. But when I finally used the voltage tester to see what's going on when the decoder was unresponsive and it was kind of evident what the issue was. Don't know why I didn't do that from the get go but I guess better later than never. Just never ran across a faulty decoder so thought it was something I was overlooking. I guess it is a lesson learned for me and start with the basics. Then go from there.

[peteski]

Ah, I assumed that since you had the recent version of F7, you were using the 58941 decoder I mentioned in the last post, but you are using hardwired decoders.  Both the LokSound5 micro and nano in hardwired version have an adapter board to which the wires are attached.  So each decoder is a sandwich of the decoder board and the adapter.

ESU 58823 LokSound 5 Micro NMRA DCC Sound Decoder hardwire consists of the decoder itself with a Next18 connector and the wire adapter board mating with the decoder.

ESU 58923 LokSound 5 Nano NMRA DCC Sound Decoder hardwire consists of a nano decoder with an E24 connector and the wire adapter mating with that decoder.

It is quite possible that the problem is not on the decoder itself but with the connector.  Sending the intermittent decoder to ESU for repair will take care of whatever is wrong with it.  Just make sure to mention that the problem is intermittent and pressing down on the decoder assembly usually fixes the problem for some time.

As for where to get ESU decoders (for a decent price), I buy mine from Bryan at https://sbs4dcc.com/mobile-decoders/esu-electronic-solutions-ulm/

And I also agree that whenever troubleshooting a problem like this, starting with the basics is the best way to go.

[Vaderta]

Thanks Pete. I appreciate the explanation of how the decoders are comprised. I am very much a rookie in this hobby, so I appreciate you breaking it down in a way I can understand.  I started by paying for people to do the sound conversions but that got expensive quick and the backlog for the people I use is sometimes months. So I decided I best get to learning how to convert the locomotives myself. I have done quite a fee now and everyone I learn something new. The more complex projects I leave to the professionals like my Kato Big Boy. That is beyond my abilities. I have had a couple good installers give me pointers along the way and for that I am appreciative.

Definitely will be giving ESU a call this week and see what they have to say and send it in to them.

Very much appreciate the link for where you get your decoders from I have been getting mine from Iron Planet Hobbies when I am not supporting my local hobby stores. I buy a certain number locally to help keep them in business and remain a resource for me. But at a certain point I have to keep this hobby financially reasonable on my end so I resort to the online hobby shops that don't have the overhead of the brick and mortar stores. It's a balancing act to say the least so the link is much appreciated

[GGNInNScale]

HI  I fought this a lot last year with 5 or 6 Kato wide bodies.  The little gray connector clip (my experience) does not do a good job of keeping the bent bronze leads in contact with the pads on the decoder.  I posted elsewhere on this issue and the fix with pictures.  Just solder the tips to the pads, and the problem will disappear.

There may have been some confusion about what I do to the decoders.  Not just with the power tabs or a WVD board, but with milled frames (Atlas, Kato, FVM, and some serious milling in a Arnold/Hornby U-boat), "plug and play" units, etc.  Here is a pic showing an install with soldered motor leads, wires soldered to the tops of the pickup uprights, shortened bronze strips where the rear pickup wires are soldered.  The same under the black cab in front (it is CA glued in).  There are soldered wires connecting the bronze strips to the WVD power input pads (curled under the board).  The point is to eliminate all sliding contacts except the wheels.  Hope this clarifies.  I have many installs posted that show how I milled frames, and built speaker backcases to make the largest volume within the frame and shell dimension limitations.
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[Vaderta]

Thanks for sharing your experience with this. I appreciate it. If you could post pictures that would be great. Although this one is still under warranty I have a bunch that are not. So if in the future something happens to one not under warranty I will know how to fix it. Thanks

[peteski]

HI  I fought this a lot last year with 5 or 6 Kato wide bodies.  The little gray connector clip (my experience) does not do a good job of keeping the bent bronze leads in contact with the pads on the decoder.  I posted elsewhere on this issue and the fix with pictures.  Just solder the tips to the pads, and the problem will disappear.

The thing here is that Vaderta is *NOT* using the ESU 58941 Kato Wide Body decoder.

As he explained, he is using ESU decoders with wire leads (58823 and 58923). So yes, the gray clip can be problematic *IF* used with the 58941 decoder, but in this case Vaderta soldered the wires directly to the motor leads and power pickups.  At  least that's how I understand what he is doing. I agree that photos showing specifics of Vaderta's install would be helpful.

[Vaderta]

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Pete you are correct. I read this post after midnight and wasn't following he was referring to the motor leads. Those I solder directly to and only use the clip if I am trying to hold a board in place for a front light. I thought he was referring to something on the decoder he soldered to get rid of a bad connection.

[peteski]

Thanks.  That confirms what I thought.

How are you retaining the flat brass pickup springs without the original light PC board installed in the loco? Without the board the metal strips will not have good positive contact with the truck's metal posts.

[Vaderta]

This was me stripping the decoder off. Most of the time I take the board out cut the back off of it and flip it upside down to cut leads and solder my front led onto. Sometimes I make a styrene cover. But there have been times I leave nothing on. So far either I have been lucky or for the smaller f units the pickup towers and tape keep them in place. The towers the end of the strips fit in pretty secure and I always secure the middle with capton tape.

[peteski]

To me keeping the pickup strips tight in the center of the chassis (the original PC board is holding them tightly against the top of the plastic motor cradle) is vital for good  contact between the strips and the truck's metal prongs. Kato PC board is included in the model and has the correct shape, so it's perfect for the job. I guess we all do things differently.

[Vaderta]

I am definitely not saying doing that it is ideal. It mainly comes from I don't like cutting the frame if i don't have to. I know that people always worry about shaving weight. That's not why I don't do it. It is simply because I am worried about breaking the frame in half where the truck clips onto the frame. It is paper thin their and Kato doesn't sell the F7 frame. I believe the  :oops:only frames they sell are the F7P which is longer and the E frames. So when I start fitting a speaker and decoder height gets tight. So on two occasions I opted to just wire the front LED without a board and slide it under the black cab interior piece and eliminate the board. This sounds like it wouldn't free up alot of height but it actually does. The two times I did this I was using. shrink wrapped barrel style resistors. I took those and layed them over the contact strips and then taped over them. It's not that I set out to do it that way. It just ends up that way usually because the shell doesn't want to fully seat over the tabs.

[peteski]

With the speaker installed on the top of the chassis do you have enough room for a speaker enclosure? Without enclosure the sound quality will be poor.

I cut the rear part of F frames using a band saw. That gives me plenty of room for a speaker and good size enclosure.

[Vaderta]

No, I just use the flat piece that comes with the sugar cube. I turn the speaker long ways so it doesn't interfere with the windows. I thought the sound quality would be poor but I find it acceptable.  I adjust the bass and treble CVs in the Lokprogrammer and it doesn't sound bad. It definitely is not as loud as my E units I do similar to what you do. But I find myself turning the volume down on those. With the F units I am usually running in consists AA- AB and ABA. Running in the consists the sound seems decent. Maybe if I ran just a single A unit it wouldn't be satisfactory.  But to be honest there are times I turn the sound off because I can't think or hear the television lol. I do like the way you notched the frame. Definitely no space wasted. If kato sold the F unit frames I would probably try doing it like you did. What speaker do you fit back there Pete?

[peteski]

Planning on using 11 x 15mm speaker with custom made enclosure.  Since I don't have a 3D printer I'll make the enclosure out of sheet styrene.
Once I get back to that project and finish it, I'll post a writeup.

Speaker with no enclosure will produce sound and some of the higher frequencies sounds (like bell or horn) will sound ok, but lower frequency sounds like diesel  engine will not sound very good. Air-tight enclosure with some appreciable air volume makes all the sounds sound much richer.

Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_enclosure

The primary role of an enclosure is to prevent sound waves generated by the rearward-facing surface of the diaphragm of an open speaker driver interacting with sound waves generated at the front of the speaker driver. Because the forward- and rearward-generated sounds are out of phase with each other, any interaction between the two in the listening space creates a distortion of the original signal as it was intended to be reproduced. As such, a loudspeaker cannot be used without installing it in a baffle of some type, such as a closed box, vented box, open baffle, or a wall or ceiling (infinite baffle).