Heljan/Concor construction

[TinyTurner]

I have been attacking various Heljan/Con-cor kits as I am able, not being too rigid as to how, except perhaps avoiding rendering them into a puddle of plastic.  That does seem to happen quite easily, the whiff of solvent is in the air 

It seems that the older Con-cor are much coarser in appearance that the later Heljan and apparently they are not all to scale either. 

I'm puzzling over adding floors to my builds as they are sorely lacking, even if that's all the detail it gets inside, but might add stairs and independent lighting.   Being turn of the century and people apparently being smaller way back when, it makes me wonder how spaced apart the the floors should be.

Windows on this corner drug store measure 7/16'' tall (six foot scale), can I have some indication of the 'right' floor height?     

[thomasjmdavis]

On floor spacing, at least here in the USA, buildings built between, say, 1865 and 1930 tended to have higher ceilings than modern buildings, at least in my experience.  Apartment ceilings were almost always 9' or more, and some 12' in older "3-flat" buildings I lived in. So, with the structure for the floor, the building would be around 32-40 feet tall (the 'ground' floor generally being several feet above street level with a basement half above ground).  A building being 'to scale' is often a matter of opinion, especially commercial structures, where the ground floor might have very high ceilings (18 to 24' say) if a bank, fancy hotel, or major office building.  Of course factory floor height would vary with the product being produced.  I owned an old factory building (1920-ish) with 14' ceilings. Prior to that had leased a space in an old post and beam 6 story factory (built circa 1885) where the ground floor had 14' clearance, and other floors had 11' clear (so floors were approximately 13' apart), except the 6th floor, that was somewhat lower.  Windows on that building were large - 7' tall by 3'6" wide, the building having been built before electric light.

Many N scale buildings are compressed vertically, just as manufacturers tend to compress the floorplans.  Some of the old Heljan buildings (whether they were Con-cor or not- Con-cor was just the importer for a period of time), were marketed as both HO and N- the difference being in door parts included in the kit- so in HO, it was a small factory with small windows, in N, a large factory with large windows.  Their 'Brewery' kit was done this way, IIRC.  Those old, coursely made Heljan early designs are still being marketed, and just about as crude. Although their newer structures done for Walthers over the last 25-30 years are much nicer.

I think the best approach is to try to model something real with whatever kits you are using- and select for a given building based on overall size and general appearance.

I find in N scale that interiors are not worthwhile unless there are big windows- such as a storefront.  What makes the most difference to me are window shades and curtains.

'

[randgust]

The only corrolary to that is that if you are really into night operations and lighting - even rudimentary interiors can be rather stunning if lit at night and the windows are big enough to actually show it off.

The other tactic that works disturbingly well is an interior shot made into a printed window background.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/NAPA2.jpg

As far as floor spacing for industrial structures, when in doubt, I'll go 12' for older stuff.  Remember a lot of equipment was overhead belt driven, took a lot of space.

Lowell, MA has an outstanding restoration of classic industrial mill brick buildings, but look at the interior:
https://www.getawaymavens.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Power-Looms-Boott-Mills-Museum-Lowell-NHP-MA.jpg

[Mark5]

On floor spacing, at least here in the USA, buildings built between, say, 1865 and 1930 tended to have higher ceilings than modern buildings, at least in my experience.  Apartment ceilings were almost always 9' or more, and some 12' in older "3-flat" buildings I lived in. So, with the structure for the floor, the building would be around 32-40 feet tall (the 'ground' floor generally being several feet above street level with a basement half above ground).  A building being 'to scale' is often a matter of opinion, especially commercial structures, where the ground floor might have very high ceilings (18 to 24' say) if a bank, fancy hotel, or major office building.  Of course factory floor height would vary with the product being produced.  I owned an old factory building (1920-ish) with 14' ceilings. Prior to that had leased a space in an old post and beam 6 story factory (built circa 1885) where the ground floor had 14' clearance, and other floors had 11' clear (so floors were approximately 13' apart), except the 6th floor, that was somewhat lower.  Windows on that building were large - 7' tall by 3'6" wide, the building having been built before electric light.

^very true.

I currently rent a circa 1900 row house with 9' ceilings (Baltimore). I have seen some with 10 to 12' ceilings.

It is not unusual in older business buildings (store fronts, etc) for side by side buildings to have different floor heights.

Mark

[TinyTurner]

I like that store window effect, looks really good. 
Must get an inkjet printer up and running again. 
Glad to see that floors can vary, gives this bash come credibility. Needs adjusting for the window frames.
Due to the outer walls pulling in a little as the solvent cured overnight, it needs some extra floors as bracing or it will end up bowed 
Apparently it is not just welding steel that can distort, very annoying.

I found a picture that has surprisingly similar characteristics for a rough guide:
https://www.dreamstime.com/timeless-corner-storefront-black-white-urban-michigan-scene-classic-architectural-charm-allegan-explore-historic-image299999249

I love the character of these structures, looks timeless.

Think the next move is to get some scale brick sheet and see what I can come up with, find some drawings. 
 

[peteski]

In my experience some N scale structure models aren't scaled properly as far as distance between floors, etc.

As for that Con-Cor corner drug store kit, in the model I built I have re-purposed a drug store space into something more fun. 

[pmpexpress]

In my experience some N scale structure models aren't scaled properly as far as distance between floors, etc.

As for that Con-Cor corner drug store kit, in the model I built I have re-purposed a drug store space into something more fun. 

Very nicely done.

How were the hanging lights and lighted signage created?

[wm3798]

Get your scale rule out and measure the window openings.  If you allow for about 18" below and 12" above the window, that should give you a reasonable approximation.
When I laid out my 3D print of a similar building, I made the first floor 12'6" high, and the upper level 10'6"  The commercial space on the first floor will almost always be higher in one of those brick stacks.  Ref. DPM structures.  You also have to keep in mind the scale depth of a floor framing system... 10-12" for floor joists.  Obviously, we don't need to quibble on those things building a model, close enough will always be good enough. 





With the ConCor kit, you've got two upper stories, which should both be the same, so take your 12 to 14' for the first floor, then split the difference for the other two, keeping in mind there should be a bit more wall below the window than above it.

Hope this is useful.
Lee

[peteski]

Very nicely done.

How were the hanging lights and lighted signage created?

Thanks Neville!
I did a full write-up on the construction back on the Atlas Forum.  I think I kept a copy on my PC. Will have to post it all here one of these days.

[pmpexpress]

Thanks Neville!
I did a full write-up on the construction back on the Atlas Forum.  I think I kept a copy on my PC. Will have to post it all here one of these days.

You're welcome.

When you get the chance, you should also post your Atlas forum board postings on the amusement park ride builds that you previously completed for a friend of yours.

[peteski]

You're welcome.

When you get the chance, you should also post your Atlas forum board postings on the amusement park ride builds that you previously completed for a friend of yours.

Sure, I can do that. Eventually. 

[OldEastRR]

Older buildings also had windows that went almost to the ceiling, at least in places with hot summers. They had both an upper and lower sash so you could open both the upper and lower ones for hot air to exit near the ceiling and cooler air come in over the sill.

[TinyTurner]

You know, I didn't know that about the sash windows, and this rental hovel I write this in has them.
I always wondered why do it that way.  They are a bit sketchy with the inner single glazing eager to fall down 
So I leave them alone mostly. 
The traffic fumes outside don't seem to care either way 

I went with a higher 1st floor roof by instinct, figuring it would need to be the largest space of all three.
Other floors are a little off from window heights but good enough.
Will have to fit final wall after the interior is done.

Used Humbrol 117 US light green as that's what I had for widow frames, or maybe redo it with a light cream.
All the older pictures are in monochrome anyway. 

[craigolio1]

In my experience some N scale structure models aren't scaled properly as far as distance between floors, etc.

As for that Con-Cor corner drug store kit, in the model I built I have re-purposed a drug store space into something more fun. 

Holy cow!  I second the request to see how this was done.

Craig

[nkalanaga]

Another reason for the tall windows was lighting.  Before cheap fluorescents they tried to use as much natural light as possible, and taller windows allowed the light to penetrate deeper into the building.