Coal?

[TinyTurner]

I'm thinking of getting some real coal put aside for modelling loads and filling locomotive tenders, before I can't get it anymore.
I'm not joking, the only way for me to get certain coal is from model engineering suppliers in large sacks to crush.
Anthracite is ok...for now.
If anyone is familiar with 'American' coal, can you say if it is at all like welsh steam coal, there are probably variations.
Reference Pictures of coals?  I guess its bituminous. 
Otherwise I will have to get one of you to ship me some...smuggling coal lol, who would have thought it.

[thomasjmdavis]

We have both anthracite and bituminous coal in the US.  Most of the anthracite is located in eastern Pennsylvania, while the bituminous is spread around the country.  Bituminous is also in hard and soft varieties, and some is higher is sulfur than other.  Out west, one also encounters 'sub-bituminous'- which if I understand is coal with a lot of impurities, and lignite (sometimes referred to as 'brown coal')

My forebears came from Wales to take mining jobs in Pennsylvania, but I can't speak to how similar Welsh and American coals are one to another.  I have personally shoveled coal into our furnace when we lived in Southern Illinois in my childhood, and cleared out the 'clinkers'.  In that part of Illinois, it was not unusual to find coal just on a walk in the woods- some seams came to ground level- we could have literally dug some up in our backyard.   

Kalmbach has a book on coal operations and railroads in the US. 
And a perhaps useful webpage-
https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/faq/what-are-the-different-types-of-coal

[nkalanaga]

From museum.wales:

"WHERE WAS THE COAL IN WALES? Covering an area of about -1,000 square miles, the South Wales Coalfield is the largest continuous coalfield in Britain. The coalfield can be broadly split into two types of coal. The valleys area had mainly bituminous coal. Further west had anthracite. When people think of Welsh coal they think of the valleys..."

https://museum.wales/media/59735/COAL-AND-WALES--An-Introduction-1.pdf

https://museum.wales/curatorial/industry/resources/coalfields/

So, I would say that, if you want "typical" American fuel (steam) coal from the steam era, ordinary bituminous would do fine, and can be found in Wales.  One good chunk will supply enough for all but the largest model railroads, so you might be able to pick up a good piece at one of  the old mines.

[John]

Otherwise I will have to get one of you to ship me some...smuggling coal lol, who would have thought it.

Coal to Newcastle

[TinyTurner]

Ha ha, the irony in that is there is no Welsh steam coal for sale in Newcastle anymore.  I would have to go to Wales or Scotland, where the good coal is still 'legal'.  Time to run a mineral finding 'errand'. 

There are actual fines for trading the stuff in England now...if you admit liability 
It's as if forming a republic with independent rule away from tyrants is a good idea!

I remember having to hump the coal scuttle for my father from the bunker outside into the house and I hated it.  But now I must scavenge for a lump for authenticity   

[bbunge]

While railfanning, walking along the right of way/yards I've picked up pieces of both types of coal that I hand crush and use for tender and hopper car loads. 

One less than fist size piece will fill a lot of n scale hoppers, especially if you have put a plastic load in the car to take up most of the space.

If you want to get picky, you can see the difference between anthracite and bituminous.  B-coal is usually more dull, A-coal can sometimes sparkle to the eye, almost like a diamond, however this might vary depending on the mine.

Another picky point is the size of the coal lumps.  Modern day, the coal in the US is almost always ground into fine bits at the mine for transport (and then coated with chemicals to reduce blowing off during transport).  It's almost a powder.  In the past, coal would go through breakers at the mine to be broken up into uniform small pieces.  At least in the US, this the traditional coal you see in engine tenders or in hoppers from WWII into the 1980s(?).  Run-of-the-mine coal would come in various size chunks, including large pieces.  Some short line roads could only afford run of the mine so the fireman would use a sledge hammer to break up the really large pieces so they would fit on the shovel.  Other railroads, like the East Broad Top, moved coal directly from the mines to the breaker where it was loaded into standard gauge cars for transport to the end customer.

Bob

[NtheBasement]

I have a lot of N scale anthracite but when I loaded and unloaded there was a lot of dust and I don't want to get black lung.  AFAIK US anthracite, aka black diamond, was only mined in five counties in PA.

If you are going to glue the stuff down instead of having it loose the best looking coal I found for modern crushed coal loads is sand for sand painting.  You can get black, dark grey, brown etc at Michaels.  It looks great  but glue it because the stuff I bought has fines that a magnet will pick up.  I don't want it anywhere near my loco motors so it is banned from my layout.  It is also heavy.

I currently use WS fine cinder ballast, made from crushed walnut shells.  Much coarser than art sand.  People also use Black Beauty sand blasting grit but I have no experience with it.

[Mark5]

Prior to the dominance of flood loading, coal was available in various sizes, and some customers were very specific about what they wanted. This was true at least into the 1970s (when I was last spent much time in coal country), as I recall the stark contrast between lump coal and the more common sizes.

Lump (or Broken)    3 1/4 – 10
Egg    2 7/16 – 3 1/4
Stove    1 5/8 – 2 7/16
Nut    13/16 – 1 5/8
Pea    9/16 – 13/16
Buckwheat    5/16 – 9/16

https://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/abcs-of-coal-loaders/

You can see what I'm talking about here:

https://wvhistoryonview.org/image/002032.jpg

Mark

[Mike C]

 @TinyTurner  Save yourself time and money . In HO I use regular aquarium charcoal . This is probably going to be too large of lumps , but a hammer will fix it for you .    Mike

[Albert in N]

If you have a feed store that supplies farmers with pigs, they may have coal for sale.  When I was a child on an Oklahoma farm, we fed small amounts of coal to our hogs.  Coal is a mineral supplement and pigs enjoy the crunch.  Google indicates that this is not unusual even today.

To avoid confusion, the coal treats for our pigs came from underground coal mines.  In our case, it probably originated from the coal mines near Miami OK.  Charcoal is a burned wood product that we used in our cistern filter.  If you see an old home with roof gutters flowing into a short masonry box near the foundation, the box held charcoal to filter the rain water draining into the cistern.  We used the filtered rain water mostly for laundry since this was soft water.  The well water we drank usually had some mineral impurities.

[Tristan Ashcroft]

Random factoid:
        The Narragansett basin in Rhode Island and Massachusetts preserves a small amount of anthracite.  People have tried mining it, but it's hard to burn.
         Anyway, Pennsylvania Coal and Welsh coal (and Rhode Island coal) all formed in the same basin, before the breakup of Pangaea.  I expect some similarities.

[nkalanaga]

"Anyway, Pennsylvania Coal and Welsh coal (and Rhode Island coal) all formed in the same basin, before the breakup of Pangaea.  I expect some similarities."

I knew that the Appalachians extended into Scotland, and wondered last night if Wales was also part of the same geologic region.

[TinyTurner]

It's interesting that Pangaea is mentioned.  Often wonder how steam power all fits into this, and where Tartaria comes into it.  Looks like Tartaria was a steampunk haven.
Think Atlantis was first.
All the way through, steam powered, still steam powered today!
Will we ever see Etheric power again?

Coal is always needed for steel.