New Bachmann 4-6-0 (19th century version) info?

[ATSF_Ron]

Does anyone have updated info on this new 19th century loco coming from Bachmann?  Trainworld is the only online vendor where I see this listed for preorder.

https://www.trainworld.com/bachmann-51470-n-19th-century-4-6-0-w-wood-tender-central-pacific-57-bison-sound-and-dcc.html

Looks like delivery is end of 2024. But...an online vendor I've used frequently said his distributor told him it's already released and sold out.  This doesn't make sense to me as Bachmann's own catalog says it's a new release.  I'd like to have at least one of these in Central Pacific (SP predecessor) as I'm primarily an SP/ATSF modeler and primarily transition era, although I've been known to bend my era when the mood strikes, lol!    Anyone know what gives with this loco?  I haven't seen any newer info on the Bachmann Forum.

Thanks,

ATSF_Ron

[Pencil]

I've also been watching for this locomotive, but haven't seen anything since the flurry of announcements.  I haven't seen the updated passenger cars, either.  I'm hoping they reduce the ride height of those cars, but looking at the new freight cars, I'm not so optimistic.

Curtis

[Englewood]

I haven't seen it anywhere listed for sale yet, and I check 3-4 online stores on a daily basis. I'd like to add a CP version to the roundhouse.

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks guys. I’ll probably call Trainworld Monday and see what they know. They’re the only place I’ve seen list it for preorder.

[squirrelhunter]

I'm curious about this one too, if it will be a new mechanism or just a new shell/tender on the existing 4-6-0.

[pmpexpress]

I'm curious about this one too, if it will be a new mechanism or just a new shell/tender on the existing 4-6-0.

Listed on page 178 of the Next Stop: Bachmann Trains 2024 Catalog, there are four new N-Scale 4-6-0 Mogul models being released:

Item Number 51470 Central Pacific #57 “Bison” with Wood Load

Item Number 51471 Union Pacific #1010 with Wood Load

Item Number 51472 Baltimore & Ohio #147 “Thatcher Perkins” with Coal Load

Item Number 51473 Pennsylvania Railroad #417 with Coal Load



Next Stop: Bachmann Trains 2024 Catalog Page 178

None of the four models is depicted in the prototype photo that Bachmann included for illustrative purposes.



19th Century Wood Burning 4-6-0 Locomotive Photo Provided By Bachmann

Should the prototype photo depict what Bachmann's 19th Century 4-6-0 Mogul models will look like, the chassis from the previously released 20th Century 4-6-0 Mogul models could not be utilized as the spacing between the middle and rear drivers is much wider; which will also entail the use of different side rod assemblies.



Bachmann 51454 N-Scale Baldwin 4-6-0 Mogul Union Pacific 1590



Bachmann 51451 N-Scale Baldwin 4-6-0 Mogul Unlettered

[thomasjmdavis]

Listed on page 178 of the Next Stop: Bachmann Trains 2024 Catalog, there are four new N-Scale 4-6-0 Mogul models being released:

Item Number 51470 Central Pacific #57 “Bison” with Wood Load

Item Number 51471 Union Pacific #1010 with Wood Load

Item Number 51472 Baltimore & Ohio #147 “Thatcher Perkins” with Coal Load

Item Number 51473 Pennsylvania Railroad #417 with Coal Load

Next Stop: Bachmann Trains 2024 Catalog Page 178

None of the four models is depicted in the prototype photo that Bachmann included for illustrative purposes.

19th Century Wood Burning 4-6-0 Locomotive Photo Provided By Bachmann

Should the prototype photo depict what Bachmann's 19th Century 4-6-0 Mogul models will look like, the chassis from the previously released 20th Century 4-6-0 Mogul models could not be utilized as the spacing between the middle and rear drivers is much wider; which will also entail the use of different side rod assemblies.

Bachmann 51454 N-Scale Baldwin 4-6-0 Mogul Union Pacific 1590

Bachmann 51451 N-Scale Baldwin 4-6-0 Mogul Unlettered

The prototype photo "for illustrative purposes" looks a lot like the "Baldwin Ten Wheeler, 1870" in John H White's History of the American Steam Locomotive, Its Development 1830-1880 pp. 437-442.  Drawings there attributed to the Manual for Railroad Engineers, 1878, indicating that at least when the book was published, the drawings were still available.  Other drawings on those pages of White's book show variations of the Baldwin loco built in the early 1870s.

To be pedantic.... it surprises me that Bachmann lists these as "Mogul 4-6-0" as a "Mogul" is a 2-6-0, a 4-6-0 is a "Ten Wheeler" in almost all texts.

[peteski]

Still has the unprototypically large modern looking tender. 

[pmpexpress]

To be pedantic.... it surprises me that Bachmann lists these as "Mogul 4-6-0" as a "Mogul" is a 2-6-0, a 4-6-0 is a "Ten Wheeler" in almost all texts.

I concur...

Bachmann has indeed mislabeled their 4-6-0 locomotives.

[pmpexpress]

Still has the unprototypically large modern looking tender. 

Bachmann will certainly not be converting that large modern looking coal tender into one that is designed to carry wood.

The tenders that Bachmann included with their previously released 4-6-0 locomotives look like they belong in the 20th rather than the 19th century.

Built by Rogers Locomotive Works in May 1898, Illinois Central No. 382 which was involved in the train crash that killed the legendary railroad engineer Casey Jones on April 30, 1900 was a typical late 19th century coal fired 4-6-0 locomotive.

Riding on what appear to be Fox trucks and enlarged to transport coal, 382s tender bears a striking resemblance to ones that were formerly used to transport wood.

Like the previously released Bachmann N-Scale 4-6-0 models, notice how close the drivers are spaced.



Rebuilt Following Casey Jones' April 30, 1900 Train Crash: Illinois Central 382 1898 Rogers Locomotive Works Built 4-6-0 Locomotive

[thomasjmdavis]

Utah Rails has this info-
1885 #             1st  #               Builder     Bld #         Bld date         1895 #                 Note
UPRy 1010    UPRy 207    Danforth    1119    Jan 1880    UP 1010         7

Note 7 - UPRy 1010 was built as UPRy 207 in 1880; to UPRy 1010 in 1885; to UP 1010 in 1898; in service as LK&W 1010 from 1901 to 1908; Leavenworth, Kansas & Western Railway purchased by UP in 1908; vacated in 1914

https://utahrails.net/up-steam-roster/up03-upsys1885-1898-07.php7

Still has the unprototypically large modern looking tender. 

The last run Bachmann 4-6-0 has a modern looking tender.  It looks a great deal like the tender included with the Consolidation (which loco has a much more 20th century look to it), and may be the same, although I don't have a 4-6-0 to compare it to.  Presumably, the one included with the 1870s-ish new production will be more appropriate.  But with Bachmann, you never know until you see the model in a hobby shop.  Could end up with 1970s  tooling 4-4-0 on smaller drivers, or a completely retooled masterpiece.  Have to wait and see until there are photos of what they are actually producing.

On the earlier release 4-6-0s , the drivers almost look like the old 0-6-0/2-6-2 drivers.  Certainly look small for a 4-6-0.

[peteski]

Yes,  that tender is the same one Bachmann originally designed for more modern (and larger) steam locos, and also sold it separately for a while.  Not only that saves them the expanse of tooling a smaller, more prototypical tender, they need it that large to house the Econami sound circuitry inside it.

[ATSF_Ron]

I wouldn't mind if they reused the existing 4-6-0 mechanism.  It's a good one.  At least the one I have is.  But they at least need to put on the appropriate shell and an era appropriate tender if they're calling it "19th century."  The CP Bison they will offer looks similar to the prototype pic they show in the catalog.

Here's a link to a CP 4-6-0 at the Rocklin roundhouse...
https://www.deviantart.com/vincentberkan/art/Central-Pacific-82-Buffalo-730549161

Hopefully they produce something similar with the appropriate paint/lettering/tender size.  Time will tell!

[Jimbo]

I concur...

Bachmann has indeed mislabeled their 4-6-0 locomotives.

Interesting… I didn’t see anything in the catalog description that they refer to it as anything but a 4-6-0.  Did they refer to it as a Mogul in a press release?

The current 4-6-0 uses the same tender as the 2-8-0 (the “USRA medium” tender).  It looks out of place on this model, even if modeling the late steam era.  It would look worse on a 19th century 4-6-0.

The Bachmann Mogul, of which I have one, has a reasonably sized tender, and it has DCC (but not sound) installed.  The Model Power 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 have a slightly larger tender that DOES have DCC & sound.  (Not very good sound… but sound.)

I’ll be interested in seeing what actually gets released.

Jim

[pmpexpress]

Should the coal versions end up being released with the spacing between the mid and rear drivers and an appropriate 19th century tender, I will likely need to acquire one in order to create a bashed representation of the now retired Clinchfield Railroad No. 1 (aka "One Spot") Railfan Excursion Locomotive that was donated to the B&O Railroad Museum in March 1981 by the Family Lines Railroad System.



CC&I No. 1 In Clinchfield Livery