Electromagnets for microtrains?

[TinyTurner]

I have seen mention here of obsolete Kaydee electromagnets for N scale.

I found a mod on this site, but the cost of buying to mod for me is high, over $23 equivalent each.
https://www.aglasshalffull.org/N-Scale-railroad-info-and-pictures/article-uncouplers.html
You do seem to get two out of one though.

Has a diy effort been made to replace them?

I can find 1'' diameter iron rod online for a core.
Magnet wire gauge, how many turns of wire?
How much power before melting down?
The 'wings' at the side appear to be shaped mild steel.

Commercial coils repurposed?
I have a stash of old peco turnout solenoids...
The idea is to be able to have the advantage over permanent magnets.
It also has to fit under cork and though ply and foam.

Test layouts test the builder 

[robert3985]

I have seen mention here of obsolete Kaydee electromagnets for N scale.

I found a mod on this site, but the cost of buying to mod for me is high, over $23 equivalent each.
https://www.aglasshalffull.org/N-Scale-railroad-info-and-pictures/article-uncouplers.html
You do seem to get two out of one though.

Has a diy effort been made to replace them?

I can find 1'' diameter iron rod online for a core.
Magnet wire gauge, how many turns of wire?
How much power before melting down?
The 'wings' at the side appear to be shaped mild steel.

Commercial coils repurposed?
I have a stash of old peco turnout solenoids...
The idea is to be able to have the advantage over permanent magnets.
It also has to fit under cork and though ply and foam.

Test layouts test the builder 

@TinyTurner - Way back in the mid 1980's when I began replacing all of my Rapido couplers with Kadee N-scale couplers with their Magne-Matic uncoupling protocol, I also pondered whether I should go with an electromagnet under the track or a permanent magnet.

Since the permanent magnets were exponentially cheaper and MUCH less complicated, I went with the between-the-rails permanent magnets strategically placed on my industrial trackage to test their functionality.

They worked very well, especially after installing Kadee Axle Springs on one axle point for each car that I was going to be dropping off and setting out.  These little springs act as "snubbers" and keep the cars from rolling extremely freely, eliminating "The Slinky Effect"...which causes all sorts of problems when switching an industrial area.

Soooo...I would suggest that you try the cheap, but effective, between-the-rails MTL uncoupling magnets before going with under-the-track electromagnets, or, if the permanent magnets work (which they probably will) you can opt for the larger under-the-track permanent magnets that are also available and can't be seen because they're buried underneath your flex. If there's no "Slinky-ing" going on, the permanent uncoupling magnets should function just as effectively as an electromagnet uncoupler.

One thing however, is to NEVER put a permanent uncoupling magnet on your mainlines...unless it is absolutely positively the only place to position one.  Then, either an electromagnet or a drop-down permanent magnet under your track would be what you want.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[randgust]

If you have a spot on your layout where one electromagnet can serve a bunch of places - like a yard throat, AND you're having issues with false uncoupling, may be worth a shot.

On my layout, I have both the one electromagnet at the yard throat and then what I call 'knuckle poppers', between the rails magnets snapped down to 1/3 or 1/4 the original MT length, painted to match the ties, and marked with a tie on the roadbed.  You have to have PRECISE control of your switcher to use those, but short ones work just fine.  You may not get full delay action, but on each siding or yard track you don't always need it either.

I still have some relatively stubborn couplers.   If I get a sticky one, head for the electromagnet, turn that on, and that will uncouple and delay just about anything.  I have it rigged with both a toggle to lock it on and a pushbutton for intermittent, most times the pushbutton is enough.

I've rebent Z coupler pins to get a bit closer and surprised how well those work.     

I've also done the old RDA head modification on older MT couplers (the Ntrak/Jim Fitzgerald discovered back in the 70's) to prevent vertical uncoupling separations and the resulting pushing of heads with trip pins DOWN resulting in snags.  That's the miracle fix for trip pins, so when I see somebody cutting them off to prevent snagging, it's a forehead slap. 

And anything other than MT couplers are just worthless for magnetic uncoupling.   Period.

The other thing I've done is to equip locos normally in MU consists with fixed couplers; either Caboose Hobbies knuckles, or cut the pins, or glue the heads with ACC.  Watching an MU consist separate couplers is another forehead slap.

But populate an entire layout with electromagnets?   Oh.....&*%%$ no! 

[peteski]

I also have seen setups where a under-the-layout permanent magnet uncoupler was mounted on a hinge and could be dropped down by some remote means (like lever, pushrod, or a string.  That way you have same functionality as the electromagnet, for fraction of a cost, no wiring, and it is hidden.

But as others have said, for most applications magnetic uncouplers are really the way to go.  Electromagnet is useful in some very specific locations where unscheduled couplers could occur (like on a main line).  MTL's delayed action also works well, so a single uncoupler can serve multiple spurs.

[TinyTurner]

I don't really want a visible between the rails magnet in most locations , I would prefer an under the ties option hidden in the cork roadbed, and set out a scenic marker to indicate position.
Most of my plans have a 2'' strait section allocated for uncoupling for where I presumed it was best to be.   
I do have a few of the suggested Micro-Trains 1310 between rails magnets to trial.

So what are the options for under the ties magnets, the HO size?
Would the 1310 be powerful enough set in the road bed with a very thin cover to hide?
Any ferrite magnet of large enough proportions?

Another edit* Z & Nn3, MTL-921 ?

I forgot to ask if code 40 or 55 rail height makes any difference to uncoupling ...as I will likely use both at some point.

[mmagliaro]

They make the completely hidden permanent magnets for HO and larger scale.  I notice that they are pretty darn big magnets with an "intensifier" plate (a steel plate that goes under the magnet).  Has anybody tried just using a rare earth (neodymium) magnet hidden under the ties for this (and for N scale).  It would be so much stronger, you should be able to use a much smaller magnet, and have it be less fussy about the depth it is buried under the ties.  This does nothing for alleviate accidental uncouplings, but at least it won't be visible.  I used the between-ties permanent magnets many years ago.  I finally decided that just using a little pick tool to uncouple cars was so much easier and more reliable that I wasn't going to get hung up on having "hands-free" uncoupling.  And of course, then you can uncouple anywhere, with no regard to where the magnet "stations" are.

[robert3985]

...I finally decided that just using a little pick tool to uncouple cars was so much easier and more reliable that I wasn't going to get hung up on having "hands-free" uncoupling.  And of course, then you can uncouple anywhere, with no regard to where the magnet "stations" are.

Yup.  This is what I decided also.  Plus, since prototype cars aren't usually automatically uncoupled, at least in an industrial pick-up/set-out scenario, the manual uncoupling adds a bit of a more prototype "feel" to the operation IMO.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[TinyTurner]

A little more searching found this using rare earth magnets.

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I have a physical need to use remote uncoupling, so this is more of a necessity than a luxury.
I am tempted to try the Z scale MT if I can get hold of them.

I vaguely remember someone once used magnetic kitchen unit door closures...
Micro servo magnet combo...

Anything under the ply and in the foam is less desirable.
It's going to take some trial and error for a 'stealth' solution and each situation may differ.
 

[Maletrain]

I did not have much luck with those small, round "rare earth" magnets. 

But the Bachmann under-the-track magnets seem to be very reliable for uncoupling.  See https://yankeedabbler.com/products/bachmann-78998-n-scale-e-z-track-uncoupling-magnet-with-brakeman-figure

I stick them under Kato Unitrack, so they are not visible.

They are wider than the between-the-rails versions, so they pull even unmodified trip pins farther apart to provide for more reliable "delayed" uncoupling (actually just pushing car with couplers remaining unmated/non-connected so that the car does not connect to be pulled when the loco reverses).

[Mark5]

Non-electromagnet thoughts from DKS - he used 1" rectangular magnets from Radio Shack (NLA): http://davidksmith.com/modeling/articles/article-3.htm

Similar magnets probably could be found from another source.

The underneath "swing away" magnet concept is also discussed, though I would be uncomfortable with the thin sheet metal approach shown therein.

Mark

[peteski]

Several years ago I seem to recall seeing small ad in one of the model RR magazine (wither N-Scale magazine or maybe even Model Railroader) for under-track magnetic uncoupler.  It even showed a simple drawing of one. it was a rectangular (steel) plate with a small round magnet on each corner.

Some helpful info for this type of uncoupler is in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=45101.0
DKS has a clinic on building similar under-roadbed magnetic uncoupler in http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/clinic_30.htm, but thart website is now gone. Maybe someone has a copy of it.

[NtheBasement]

I have different systems.  The most reliable permanent setup isn't a Microtrains between-the-track (which works very well), it is a kit I bought at a train show - can't find a link.  It is a small square of metal that you mount four tiny neodymium magnets on.  I had to cut out the cork roadbed to install it, very easy.

I think any neodymium magnets will work as long as the poles are under the rails.  Most of the bar magnets on Amazon have poles on their flat sides, you'd have to mount one under and along each rail.

My hinge-mounted Kadee HO magnets are not that reliable and were a pain to install because I had to cut a hole in the plywood benchwork which involved removing the track.  Installation has to be precise.  The main problem is finding a hinge with no slop - cheap stamped hinges misalign.

I have a Rapido electromagnet uncoupler that I'm happy with.  It is overpowered so it's lower than just under the cork.  Also requires removing the track to drill the hole.  It works by rotating a permanent magnet to be either across the track or along it.  The problem is it attracts the steel rods that Atlas uses to weigh down their coal hoppers.

Regarding length of straight track, you want the couplers in a perfect line, meaning if you have truck-mounted couplers the truck wheels need to all be on the straight.  Unless you are good at precisely spotting your cars I'd go with three inches.  And with body-mounts you may need a straight as long as two of your longest cars.

[Jesse6669]

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/

This is a good source of magnets of many shapes, sizes, polarity etc.

[BAZ-man]

Home Depot & Lowes have 1” long, 1/8 sides bar magnets. Works extremely well.
Cut a slot/channel into cork , place track over, roll car (flats are easiest) and watch coupler action. Then roll car back away. Roll the magnet 90 degrees (short sides) and watch the coupler action again. Best side wins.
NOTE:there are TWO polarizations on a magnet. You need the side-to-side, not end-to-end (as the article I read, somewhere)
NOTE: the Magnets in the package are as-you-would-use-them! Sz paint a mark on all, BEFORE you take them out! (1 in the middle, facing you and 1 on 1 end). The end one just helps if the get drop and explode :p

I did did this in Z and the magnets were more than strong enough. And, no influence from a parallel or halfway parallel magnet.

The Kadee Patent is out there.

[peteski]