Atlas Alco S-2 project

[randgust]

A couple years ago I got in an Atlas S-2 to do a custom paint and detail project on.

OK, I'm a skeptic on about everything, but holy smokes, that was an impressive locomotive for performance and appearance.  When I sent it back to the customer I made a note that it was as good a switcher as I'd ever seen.

When I took my west coast trip with my parents in 1972, there were FM's and Alcos everywhere, and at that time, Winslow was still a real division class yard.  But it was a surprise to me to find out that the assigned switcher at the time was a pair of S-2's, at least according to Qstation.  Huh!  Another discovery, and one unit was 2377.

I've been pretty happy with my EMD SW8's for performance, and I'd changed the mechanism out under my LifeLike shell with a Kato NW2.  Very happy with it as a yard switcher.  But apparently, the wrong one.

With me, performance always wins.   My SW8 on a Kato chassis was an impressive performer, with a weight of 51.2 grams and tractive effort of 11 grams, for 21.2% adhesion.  The original Life-Like chassis had a nasty habit of having the wheels corrode up and stall, high maintenance, so the Kato chassis has been my go-to switcher for years.

Finally broke down and got an Atlas S-2, and really got into it.   Wow.   Great performance, but on exam, wow, there's still a lot of air in there.  The non-sound version cab was entirely empty, air space over the motor, air space in the nose....  Hmmm.  Let's fill that up with weight and see how it goes, it's already heavy with a metal shell.

So with more lead added everyplace it will fit, this was really impressive....now it's up to 65.7 grams and tractive effort of 13.5 grams, 20.5% adhesion, so not only is it the right locomotive, it's outperforming anything else and can drag a yard cut nothing else can touch. Solid pickup, great low speed, silent.   So now, this is a project.

Paint was stripped, details being changed, and because I'll do wire handrails, everything was taken off or ground off.   White paint is just primer under what will be yellow.  Grabs already moved over to wire.   Stack changed to that signature oddball ATSF stack made from aluminum, reinforced into the body with steel pins.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/Alco237701.jpg



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/Alco237702.jpg

Here's the drive, note the lead over top of the motor, and the black light barrier casting is loaded as well



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/Alco237703.jpg

So here we go, I'm sure I'll get a few 'what tha heck has he done....'  but hang in there, this one will get the full treatment.

[peteski]

Looks like a good project Randy.
The sound decoder doesn't really take up any more room than the light board in yours. Speaker is housed in the cab. You could stick some more lead over the worms - there is quite a bit of room there.

[bbussey]

Link:  http://www.randgust.com/Alco237703.jpg

Even more importantly, I'm wondering after seeing this pic if a TCS KA-N1 keep-alive module will fit in the space over the front worm/flywheel.

[dem34]

Even more importantly, I'm wondering after seeing this pic if a TCS KA-N1 keep-alive module will fit in the space over the front worm/flywheel.

An Iowa scaled Run-N-Smooth might.
Its really tight either way. To the point one may be stuck putting a few loose tantalum caps if they want some keep alive capacity.

[wm3798]

Even more importantly, I'm wondering after seeing this pic if a TCS KA-N1 keep-alive module will fit in the space over the front worm/flywheel.

Randy's like me.  Running DC.  Not sure if a keep alive is compatible.  Take all those expensive gizmos out and stuff it with lead to within an inch of its life.

Lee

[bbussey]

An Iowa scaled Run-N-Smooth might.
Its really tight either way. To the point one may be stuck putting a few loose tantalum caps if they want some keep alive capacity.

The TCS KA-N1 has slightly smaller dimensions than the ISA Run-N-Smooth PowerKeeper, definitely not as tall, so it may fit in that gap.  I like both products.

Randy's like me.  Running DC.  Not sure if a keep alive is compatible.  Take all those expensive gizmos out and stuff it with lead to within an inch of its life.

I'm running DCC and I have a large number of long frogs and points to traverse through station-area trackage, which gets dirty quickly because all of it isn't traveled regularly.  The added keep-alive functionality smooths out operation significantly.

[randgust]

Randy's like me.  Running DC.  Not sure if a keep alive is compatible.  Take all those expensive gizmos out and stuff it with lead to within an inch of its life.

Lee

That's what I'm after.   When I'm doing block swaps out of the through freights in Winslow, the yard switcher has to be able to handle a 20-car cut unassisted, and no stalling.   Most new stuff can't handle it.  Too light.

I'm not against DCC or sound, I'm doing that on my Ttrak module power now, but the big DC layout, no wimpy power need apply.   It's funny, because when I designed it the old Rapido and Trix power never had a problem, but now most new power doesn't have enough tractive effort for a 1:1 replacement, or even 2:1. 

But yeah, there's enough air in there for everybody.   

[bbussey]

That's what I'm after.   When I'm doing block swaps out of the through freights in Winslow, the yard switcher has to be able to handle a 20-car cut unassisted, and no stalling.   Most new stuff can't handle it.  Too light.

My question would be, what was the load capacity of an actual Alco S-2?  How many cars could it pull unassisted?  A Microsoft CoPilot search also indicates 20 cars, so that seems to be a realistic goal on the modeling side.

[randgust]

Here's what I'll christen the "how to train your dinosaur" manual from Alco. 

In case you've never really looked at one of these, note the DRAMATIC differences on a normal diesel between what it can start, how long it can hold it before you toast a traction motor, and how fast  tractive effort drops off in proportion to speed.   We don't have that problem.

https://www.schenectadyhistory.org/railroads/manuals/tp107a/index.html#diagrams

My Alco buddies will always swear that the Alco GE electricals would hold up better than EMD on a hard pull.

We've got two active S-2's locally, both at the Oil Creek & Titusville, and they have to pull a long train of EL MU passenger cars up the Oil Creek Valley at about 15mph max.   It's something to be in the open car on the return upgrade trip right behind the locomotive and just listen to her run.   You can see the engineer running the throttle, and also hear the fact that you NEVER hear transition relays fire for the entire upgrade run.

Most people don't realize that a switcher really isn't that much lighter than a road unit, the S-2 comes in at about 115 tons and a GP7 typically runs about 120 depending fuel tank size.   

I looked around for a decent video of 75 pulling UPGRADE, can't find one, but you'll get the idea.

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I've ridden behind 75 now for almost 40 years, since NYLE first got her, and then transferred her to Titusville.

[dandopinski]

Based on my own experience, most end cab switchers could pull close to 100 empties on level track. They would be in run 8, sanders on and maxing out at 10 mph. The foremen would usually make the cut of about 50 cars or less so that the engines could kick cars and stop before running past the switch and having to back up again.

[randgust]

When I lived in Jamestown NY, EL had an SW-8/9 or similar as the Jamestown yard switcher, pretty much forever.  Standard assignment, into Conrail.

Then in the Conrail era, Bush Industries built a big new plant up on top of a hill in Falconer.   ENORMOUS construction job to get a siding up there, we local railfans immediately christened it Sherman Hill.  Tight curve at the bottom, deep cut, and a grade crossing that had to be flagged.   Then right up the gut to the top of the hill.  I'll guess 3%, but visibly steep.
Inbound loaded centerbeams of particleboard, i.e. full 120 ton + cars, from a dead stop, and up that new steep grade.   They put a little passing siding at the top so that it could be doubled....but.....

The little SW's never made it.   Rumor had it that even getting one car up that hill toasted a traction motor.   SW's left, never came back, we then got a GP38, and it couldn't handle more that two loads up the hill at a time.    You can look up 19 Mason Dr. Falconer NY and appreciate that hill.  The dumbest thing was that the Allen St. crossing was a manual flag and the Mason Drive crossing got full gates and lights.

Your mileage may vary.   A lot.
 

[wm3798]

My question would be, what was the load capacity of an actual Alco S-2? 

Would that be a European S2, or an African S2?

I'll see myself out...

Lee

[u36b]

European S2, of course:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/65480188@N07/20891905258

Oh, I meant S1...    aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh

[randgust]

And if anyone wants my own exhaustive research data on exactly how many coconuts (grams) any given swallow (locomotive) can carry, I have a spreadsheet on that, PM me with an email!  But only in metric units! 
Lee, where was that door out again?

[randgust]

Basic paint is done, I'll get photos up this weekend.

But before I really start into detail, last check on performance.  I got rid of the Atlas boxing gloves and put on 1015's, and ran it in the yard for about an hour just shuffling cars around testing it.   As I DO use hands-free magnetics, getting the couplers perfect on a primary yard switcher is key - pin height, angle, adequate shank swing, it's gotta be spot on.  The SW has been that good, it's got to match it in performance or exceed it.

And it is.   Wow.   

That's been my approach in N, I don't wait around for the ideal stuff, I'll get or make the best available at the time, but if something better shows up, out the old one goes.   So since about 1974 my primary switcher has evolved from a Rivarossi Atlas SW1500 with a modified cab roof, to a Life-Like SW, to the same shell with a Kato NW2 drive, to an Atlas S2, each time really raising the performance bar. 

Definitely a 'wouldn't have believed it until I tried it' exercise, but I spend enough time dumping on stuff that a reverse is in order periodically.  And in the 1972 era I'm modeling - a diesel transition era - I finally have the Alco yard switcher appropriate to the history.