Getting All "Snooty" About It

[C855B]

Time to pour one out for @TiVoPrince and the original "steaming yard loaf" ......

TiVo had a major "thing" about the IM Tunnel Motor. He and I got into it bad, oh, was it ~15 years ago? I dropped off of TRW for about five years on account of his incessant personal attacks over it, and other trivial issues. Sorry that the person is gone, I gather he was an interesting individual who was helpful to others, but he was pretty rude to me nearly every time I posted back during his time here.

There, @Ed Kapuscinski , finally said it in public.

[lock4244]

I'm wanting to purchase a pair of SP and a pair of DRGW for reasons I cannot explain. No need for them, dare say they never ventured to Ontario in those schemes in my era. Thus far I've resisted...

They do look nice though.

[Jbub]

I'm wanting to purchase a pair of SP and a pair of DRGW for reasons I cannot explain. No need for them, dare say they never ventured to Ontario in those schemes in my era. Thus far I've resisted...

They do look nice though.

I'm in the same boat with the DRGW and SP as delivered, but I could justify the UP yellow sill unit though.

[C855B]

Comparison, ST vs. IM. Should be fairly evident which is which. 8307 is ST, 8314 is IM.

Aside from the far-superior fineness of detail with the ST model, some things jumped out at me. First, apparently IM had no reference for roof details and was winging it. Last shot shows the difference. Second was the eye-opener that the ST model is two scale feet longer than the IM and it appears to be all in the snoot, evident in that last picture; I'll hazard a guess as to who is right.

Ride height is important. IM appears awkward in the comparison. Aside from ride height and the poorly-executed roof on the IM, from 3 feet away they don't compare badly until you know what you're looking for. Things I didn't pick-up in person sure jumped-out at me in the photographs.

I don't know what's going on with the bright trim rings around the marker lights on the ST model. Are the markers illuminated? I didn't have time to install the LokPilot, so haven't powered-up my ST pair just yet.

Don't forget that my image server is HTTP and not HTTPS. If you can't see the pix, make sure that you have mixed content turned on in whatever browser you put up with.













EDIT: I have to note that these are iconic models for me, and I am not disappointed. The first quarter-century of my life was spent in the shadows of the Tehachapis, and 8300s were specifically outfitted for running on SP's challenging line through there. The RR even had special Locotrol (early RCE) radio repeaters through and around the tunnels, the 40T-2s being the first (and maybe only?) SP locos equipped for this particular operation.

[C855B]

I'll add in reviewing these pictures this morning, the cabs in the first picture drew my eye. The ST model evokes the prototype very well with the sunshade, mirrors, arm rest, the 'M' for "master", and the properly-proportioned road number. The IM model is... naked... and comes across as the model it is. And the road number font just isn't right, while the long hood lettering is OK.

OK, granted, the 20-year difference needs to be taken into account, but, still.

[Scottl]

This comparison is similar to ST vs Kato units.  Kato units seem almost naked in the same sense.  I've reconciled myself by runing ST as the head end unit and Katos or FV trailing.  The difference seems minor in that configuration.

Having said that, these Tunnel Motors look amazing.  I used to have IM Rio Grande units and they served me well, but the ST units look outstanding.

[robert3985]

...I don't know what's going on with the bright trim rings around the marker lights on the ST model.

@C855B - First, those are not "marker lights" but they're "class lights" or "class lamps" and when in use at the head-end of a train, they would be either white or green, indicating "green" for a scheduled train with its own train number, which would be displayed in the engine's numberboard and would be different from the engine number, or "white" for an extra train with the train number in the numberboard being the same as the engine's number, but with an "X" in front of it.

Evidently, after looking at several prototype photos, initially these lights had a bright metal surround on them, just like what's on the ST model, usually with an obvious black rubber gasket around the outer edge.  Later, the bright metal got considerably duller, taking on a more painted aluminum look.  Even later, after re-paintings, many of these lights had the metal surround and rubber gasket painted red, with just the light lens not painted.

Even later, when class lamps were no longer in use, the whole assembly just got painted over, including the lamp lens, or removed, and the holes plugged by a circle of sheet metal, held in place by the black rubber gaskets, with the metal circles painted red.  In some photos, the metal circle is rusty and has rivets showing on it and no rubber gasket.

Later, some, maybe all, of the lights got completely removed with new sheet metal welded in place, ground down and painted with no evidence of there every having been a hole there.

That's the story.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Ed Kapuscinski]

TiVo had a major "thing" about the IM Tunnel Motor. He and I got into it bad, oh, was it ~15 years ago? I dropped off of TRW for about five years on account of his incessant personal attacks over it, and other trivial issues. Sorry that the person is gone, I gather he was an interesting individual who was helpful to others, but he was pretty rude to me nearly every time I posted back during his time here.

There, @Ed Kapuscinski , finally said it in public.

Whoa!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Jeez, those are sharp. I'm so glad that this iconic locomotive finally has a quality model of it.

So who's gonna be the first to cover their beautiful new toy in soot?

[C855B]

... So who's gonna be the first to cover their beautiful new toy in soot?

Not I. I remember them when they were brand new and all shiny from the factory. SP's reputation for dirty and haggard aside, that's my mental image of 'em and I'm gonna keep 'em that way! 

[C855B]

@C855B - First, those are not "marker lights" ...

Gee, Bob. That's what we called 'em when I was working for SP.

Tell you what. When I finish my time machine, I'll head back to #1 Market St. 50 years ago and give the guys the what-for for leading me astray.

[Missaberoad]

Bob, @robert3985

Excellent summary of class lights and flags, I have only one small correction to make regarding green flags.

Green flags and lights are displayed to indicate a scheduled train with a following section. A small distinction but an important one when you are meeting a train and trying to determine if all sections have arrived.

A scheduled train running as a single section or the final train when running in multiple sections displays no class lights/flags.

To the best od my knowledge, this was universal in north America, common to both CCOR and UCOR.

As another aside the class light assemblies also had a red position to be used as markers when operating as a train light engines. (Or when engines were the last piece of equipment such as in helper operations)

[robert3985]

Bob, @robert3985

Excellent summary of class lights and flags, I have only one small correction to make regarding green flags.

Green flags and lights are displayed to indicate a scheduled train with a following section. A small distinction but an important one when you are meeting a train and trying to determine if all sections have arrived.

A scheduled train running as a single section or the final train when running in multiple sections displays no class lights/flags.

To the best od my knowledge, this was universal in north America, common to both CCOR and UCOR.

As another aside the class light assemblies also had a red position to be used as markers when operating as a train light engines. (Or when engines were the last piece of equipment such as in helper operations)

@Missaberoad -  Yup, you're correct.  I didn't get into the whole "thing" about class lamps, numberboards and sections...which I have in another post here at TRW sometime in the past.  However, good of you to point it out.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

Gee, Bob. That's what we called 'em when I was working for SP.

Tell you what. When I finish my time machine, I'll head back to #1 Market St. 50 years ago and give the guys the what-for for leading me astray.

@C855B - That's interesting.  Class lamps are on the front of the train, and marker lamps go on the end of the train.  That's the generally accepted terminologies, which, evidently, may vary from road to road.

So, what did the "guys" 50 years ago call the lights/lamps at the end of an SP train then?

Just curious..., but thanks for the historical reference!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[C855B]

So, what did the "guys" 50 years ago call the lights/lamps at the end of an SP train then?

Marker. Singular. Just one red light on the bay window cabooses (actually, two lamps, double-barrel style). The cupola cabooses were all but gone by my time (70's).