N Scale Logging Car...

[Sumner]

Need suggestions for parts to make a skeleton logging car. 

I'll design the car itself so that it can be 3D printed but need to get parts before I start the design work so that things work together.  My sawmill complex is fictional and in the 1960's time period.  It is transitioning to mainly having the logs delivered by truck but still getting some logs coming in via train. 

So what trucks might the cars have under them?  Any links to ones suggested would be helpful.

I'm thinking body mounted couplers (MT).  Which ones?  I see where 1026's are recommended for flatcars so thought that might be the direction to head in but open to suggestions as my knowledge of trucks and couplers is almost nonexistent.  Also going to be making quite a few cars so price wise nothing exotic please.

Sumner

[samusi01]

I believe you are 1950s/1960s? Here are a few from the 50s through the 70s. NP mostly recycled old cars (flats, gons, etc.) so early transition era would be appropriate. I should imagine most railroads did something similar.

[Sumner]

Thanks, I'll order the Bettendorf's. 

Anyone have suggestions on the couplers?

Sumner

[Tad_T]

[mmagliaro]

Thanks, I'll order the Bettendorf's. 

Anyone have suggestions on the couplers?

Sumner

I used Microtrains Z Scale (905's) body mount couplers on my scratch built log cars.  I just made sure I had enough thickness in a brass plate at the end of the car so there would be enough metal to tap and hold the coupler screw securely.

As for parts... there were GHQ white metal kits for NP steel sill logging cars,
but they no longer have them.  You might get lucky on eBay or at a swap meet for them.  That might let you copy part of their
parts design and test for fit an appearance as you work out your model.

[Tad_T]

Another white metal/no longer available were the Republic Locomotive Works log cars. They also show up occasionally on eBay.

[nkalanaga]

If you're 3D printing the entire car, I'd use 1015s, and design the coupler pocket into the car.  A skeleton car looks better if it doesn't have a big draft gear box hanging from the end!

My personal preference would be for 1025s, but 1015s seem to the defacto standard today, either one would work.

[Sumner]

Thanks guys i have some Bettendorf trucks ordered and some 1026 couplers ordered and have some 1015's so will see what seems to work best when I design the car.  If I can I'll see if I can get some 1025's added to the order.  I'll have the coupler pocket as part of the car and will try to add some hidden pockets to add weight to if possible.

I'll report back as I work on this and if it is somewhat successful post the print files on my thingiverse account .

Sumner

[peteski]

If you're 3D printing the entire car, I'd use 1015s, and design the coupler pocket into the car.  A skeleton car looks better if it doesn't have a big draft gear box hanging from the end!

My personal preference would be for 1025s, but 1015s seem to the defacto standard today, either one would work.

Well, if the car is designed from scratch, why not incorporate the 1025 design. Those coupler boxes are more prototypical shape (lower profile) than the large sized 1015s. Not even sure who made it the 1015s a de-facto standard in the first place.

[nkalanaga]

For a 3D-printed car. the 1015 box wouldn't have to be any bigger, and would be shorter, than the 1025, if the box is part of the car.

That huge 1015 box is because it was originally intended to replace body-mounted Rapidos on diesel loco pilots, and that was the size that best fit the holes in the pilots.  Quite a few modern freight car models use 1015s in custom boxes, and they don't look bad. 

There's nothing WRONG with the 1015 itself, it's just that I've been using the 1025s since they (and I) were new, in the early 70s, and that's what I'm used to for body mounting.  Also, if one special orders the boxes and lids, truck-mounted couplers can be recycled rather than replaced!

[Sumner]

Decided to start with the 1015's as I have some and after looking at the dimensions on all the other options felt these might work the best for what I'm trying to do.  I ordered trucks over the weekend so hopefully have them later this week or next.



Sumner

[randgust]

None of these will work, huh?

http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/lumberlogging.html
This does kind of remind me of when Quality Craft did their 25' cast metal cars and then went out of business... and I was corresponding with Alan Curtis when he had the business before he sold to N Scale Kits.
I sent him the historic drawings I'd collected and he came up with the N Scale kits 25' car, better than QC.  So you really might think about that because any spine log car is going to be super light if RP printed, pewter is really the best material for something like this.   I really needed those cars to sell my Climax A kits, everything else was too big and western.

I've got a fleet of like 30 of the 25' various cars myself, eastern logging.

Also check with Showcase miniatures, they do a lot of pewter work, Tom Knapp did the Nn3 log cars I use, after the initial tests in RP were just too light.

As far as for couplers, look at the Z 903's first, and if that isn't OK, consider the 1023 body mounts.  That's whats on all my cars, but if I had it to do over it would all be the 903's.

There will be a tendency for the cars to sit too high simply because of the coupler and sill height.

MT made some kind of longer western log car a while back too.  But if you need a fleet that's not an option.

[Sumner]

None of these will work, huh?

http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/lumberlogging.html

Thanks for the input and link.  Looked at those and got some ideas to work with.  I like designing (CAD) and have the printer so plan on going that route.  Most of these might not go anywhere and mostly be 'layout queens' sitting by the sawmill so they might not be much good going down the track.  I'm 80 so have to be realistic on how much of the layout will ever be finished.

...far as for couplers, look at the Z 903's first.....

How much smaller is the coupler box on those vs. the 1015's?  I can't find dimensions anywhere.  I'll reconsider them and probably order some but if the box isn't much smaller probably not.  Anyone welling to give me a length, width and height on the box or a link to those dimensions?  I looked at the 1025/1023's but didn't see that there was much difference vs. the 1015's I have and sounded the same from a comment further above.

Here is what was accomplished yesterday.

Day 2 of RR Log Car...

Mainly working on coupler height and truck bolster height (I think that is what it is called).



The body was riding a little too high on the truck making the coupler also high.  I ended up filing .025" off the body where it sits on the truck.  I'm happy with where it is now.  Using only one truck it was hard to get a good feel for where things are as it would tip down on the coupler end as shown above.  I'd file and then look at the couple while holding the body as level as possible.  Thus couldn't do that and shoot a picture so ended up with the one above and the next one.



I'm trying to keep the top of the body as low as possible so that reduced the thickness above the coupler.  I drilled and tapped for the coupler screw and have had really good luck doing that with the resin I'm using but stripped the screw out so had to CA the screw to hold the couple up in the pocket.  Also the screw is too long.

So possible solutions are....

Glue the couple into the pocket (probably do this).

Thin the top of the pocket and add a shelf under the coupler so the coupler would slide into pocket  and possibly put the screw through the bottom, thru the coupler and into the top.

Try the screw again and be more careful tapping the hole.  Find a shorter screw.  Cover the top of the screw with a tool box.

Or something else.

UPDATE: Found out why the screw stripped out.  I thought they were 0-80's and they are 0-90's so my tap drill and tap were too large

Sumner

[peteski]

Screw length is not an issue. Even if it is too long, you can always trim the part which sticks out.  Older MTL screws were made from soft white metal, but even the steel screws  MTL uses now, can be cut rather easily. I usually use my own brass screws which are also easy to trim.

Of course getting shorter screws will work too.

I still say that 1015 coupler boxes are quite a bit bulkier than 1025. They also look closer to the prototype than 1015. I'll have to take a comparison photo. 1025 mounting height is also lower than 1015.

[Sumner]

Screw length is not an issue. Even if it is too long, you can always trim the part which sticks out.  Older MTL screws were made from soft white metal, but even the steel screws  MTL uses now, can be cut rather easily. I usually use my own brass screws which are also easy to trim.

Of course getting shorter screws will work too.

I still say that 1015 coupler boxes are quite a bit bulkier than 1025. They also look closer to the prototype than 1015. I'll have to take a comparison photo. 1025 mounting height is also lower than 1015.

Thanks I'd like a comparison for dimensions.  I'd like to get the car a big narrower if possible.  My 1015's measure .205"x.210"x.128" (LxWxH) overall but are narrower on the front part (.150") where the coupler is and .135" long in the .210" width part.  It would be great if Micro Trains would provide dimensions.  Maybe they do and I can't find it.  Love their products but hate the lack of good dimensional data.

On the screws I forgot I have a 0-90 and 0-80 screw assortment and have one I think will work without cutting.  I can't cut after they are in as they would then come up through the deck and ruin the detail at that point.

Sumner