Hardwire Kato, Atlas truck pickups

[Teditor]

Has anyone hardwired Kato and Atlas truck pick-ups to eliminate the side slide pickup strips.

[Southern1970]

I was thinking of hardwiring the trucks on my Atlas GP15 as I find the mediocre pickups useless if there is any slight change in the trackwork.

[peteski]

I wouldn't even consider that.  The existing pickup system works well (and has been for decades) and makes the model easy to service.  I was disappointed when Atlas modified this well-working system by hardwiring the trucks in their new models.

Those springy pickup strips are always under tension,so they are in contact with the trucks at all times (even running over uneven track).  What I do to maximize their reliability is to polish the contact areas on the strips and on the metal "fingers" protruding from the trucks. Smooth clean surfaces result in good contact. 



I first use this emery board (alll 4 grits) to polish the metal fingers on the trucks.  Just the contact area.



The strips are smooth enough, so they do nto need the emery board treatment. Then I mount a polishing wheel in my Dremel tool and using a metal polish I buff both, the tip of the metal finger, and the contact area on the strips to a mirror-like finish.

I do not apply any lubricant to the contact area - I leave it dry.  Oils/grease are sticky and can attract crud which can interfere with the electrical contact.  The polished areas stay clean for a long time.

I also make sure to take the trucks apart and clean the axle points, and the metal bearing/pickup cups. Before reassembly I add soem light oil iinto the bearing cups. Not fill them with lubricant - just moisten the cup's inside.

We now have problem-free electrical pickup. Look Ma, no wires!

[thomasjmdavis]

I wouldn't even consider that.  The existing pickup system works well (and has been for decades) and makes the model easy to service.  I was disappointed when Atlas modified this well-working system by hardwiring the trucks in their new models.

Those springy pickup strips are always under tension,so they are in contact with the trucks at all times (even running over uneven track).  What I do to maximize their reliability is to polish the contact areas on the strips and on the metal "fingers" protruding from the trucks. Smooth clean surfaces result in good contact. 



I first use this emery board (alll 4 grits) to polish the metal fingers on the trucks.  Just the contact area.



The strips are smooth enough, so they do nto need the emery board treatment. Then I mount a polishing wheel in my Dremel tool and using a metal polish I buff both, the tip of the metal finger, and the contact area on the strips to a mirror-like finish.

I do not apply any lubricant to the contact area - I leave it dry.  Oils/grease are sticky and can attract crud which can interfere with the electrical contact.  The polished areas stay clean for a long time.

I also make sure to take the trucks apart and clean the axle points, and the metal bearing/pickup cups. Before reassembly I add soem light oil iinto the bearing cups. Not fill them with lubricant - just moisten the cup's inside.

We now have problem-free electrical pickup. Look Ma, no wires!

Maybe you should offer a service to those of us who are fumble-fingered.  I can bend up one of those metal strips just by looking at it, much less removing it from the loco to polish it.  I am more the contact cleaner on on a q-tip kinda guy.

[randgust]

Getting those strips right does more than you think.   It's the secret sauce to wheel contact, because the strips are SUPPOSED to be free-moving within in the truck, to apply force all the way down into the end-axle cups.   That is absolutely true of Kato, I've seen the wheels drop in C80 frogs and the pickup ears jiggle to compensate.   That keeps wheels in contact with railhead better than any other system.   If anything, you want to increase the tension by bending them down; not enough to cause lifting off the trucks or causing gear dislocation on the tower, but more is better.

The compromise, if any, is to leave them in and wire jumper across them anyway, but removing them is really a mistake.   It's the #1 mistake I see when people send their 'built up' 18-ton Climaxes in for repair; glue in the trucks preventing end-axle movement; and soldering up the ears and removing the strips.   And they still stall, until all that is put back in working order.

My very first Shay, the 25-tonner with kato chassis, was similarly gummed up, I ended up completely redoing trucks and wipers to get everything just right and flexible.  Constantly stalled on original build.  Man, it's just flawless after I redid that.

[Mark5]

I was thinking of hardwiring the trucks on my Atlas GP15 as I find the mediocre pickups useless if there is any slight change in the trackwork.

This might make sense, as this loco does not have the same type of pickup as the usual Atlas loco.

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlasgp15.html

[peteski]

This might make sense, as this loco does not have the same type of pickup as the usual Atlas loco.

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlasgp15.html

You do have a point Mark.  I forgot that this was one of the oddballs Atlas made.  While it has the low-friction axle point pickups, the contacts with the frames are unsprung. Similar to how early Kato models with inside-bearing trucks were. For that particular model I agree that adding some sort of a more reliable connection between the truck and the frame (like hardwiring) would be beneficial.

[OldEastRR]

I also make sure to take the trucks apart and clean the axle points, and the metal bearing/pickup cups. Before reassembly I add soem light oil iinto the bearing cups. Not fill them with lubricant - just moisten the cup's inside.

That's the bitch part -- the metal pick=up cups the axle points ride in. To get the grime way into the point of the cup I've used tiny drill bits (up to #80) to get down in there and scrape off the crud. Dip the drill point in solvent cleaner and that helps. Then stuff wadded tissue paper all the way in (using the drill bit) and wipe out the gunk. You'd be surprised how much dirt/grime accumulates in those things. You can polish the contact strips till you see your reflection in them but unless you clean the cups you're doing the job half-way.

[peteski]

Yes, cleaning those cups can be tricky, but that task is easy when I use Tamiya 87105 cotton swabs. I dip them in Naphtha, then use them to clean the cup. Once the crud is dislodged I drop some Naphtha in the cup and blow it out with compressed air.



Also don't forget to clean the axle points. I use a small swatch of paper towel moistened in Naphtha. Naphtha dissolves greasy gunk really well.

[GM50 4164]

Yes, cleaning those cups can be tricky, but that task is easy when I use Tamiya 87105 cotton swabs. I dip them in Naphtha, then use them to clean the cup. Once the crud is dislodged I drop some Naphtha in the cup and blow it out with compressed air.



Also don't forget to clean the axle points. I use a small swatch of paper towel moistened in Naphtha. Naphtha dissolves greasy gunk really well.

I do something very similar Peter. I take the paper wrapped Q-tips and cut them in the middle. Then I cut angles into the newly cut ends so they fit into the axle cups. I am not familiar with Naphtha but do use some Goo-Gone before adding a light application of the No-Ox with a micro brush.

[peteski]

I do something very similar Peter. I take the paper wrapped Q-tips and cut them in the middle. Then I cut angles into the newly cut ends so they fit into the axle cups. I am not familiar with Naphtha but do use some Goo-Gone before adding a light application of the No-Ox with a micro brush.

That sounds handy. Toothpick can also be used but the Q-tips paper shaft is just soft enough to work well.
Naphtha is a petroleum product.  It is (or at least used to be) sold in small quantities as Ronsonol Lighter Fluid for the old lighters like Zippo, or you can pick it up cheaper, in larger quantity (quart, gallon) as Varnish Makers & Painter's (VM&P) Naphtha in hardware stores.



I don't use Goo Gone because I seem to recall it leaves an oily residue behind, but it's a solvent so I'm sure it works well.

[jwaldo]

It's amazing how much schmutz accumulates in the axle cups. Hobby Lobby has pointy swabs similar to the Tamiya ones, and they really are perfect for axle cup duty.

In my experience the most common problem with the springy contact strips isn't oxidation, it's how they're bent. When I get a balky secondhand Atlas/Kato/LL loco, more often than not the problem is that the contact strips are applying too much downward pressure, not applying enough downward pressure, or bent inward/outward in such a way that they hang up on the frame or shell and don't touch the truck tab at all. Often a loco will have a different combination of all of the above at each individual contact point. But it only takes a few iterations of bend, test, repeat to get things straightened out.

[jagged ben]

I like the look of those Tamiya swabs and some of the other tips here.   That said, if you think about it, I think there's an overemphasis here on the axle points and the deepest part of the cups.  Generally the axle cups are going to get pushed down by the weight of the loco, which means that what matters is the top part of the inside surface of the axle cup, not the deepest point or the bottom or sides so much.  There's a corresponding surface on the top of the cone of the axle point (at any given instant, since it's rotating) that makes contact with the cup.  I've just been using toothpicks and CRC 03140 contact cleaner, but I focus on wiping dirt off the top part of the cup and that seems to do the trick.  I also squirt a tiny bit of the CRC in the cups before reassembling.

[jagged ben]

It's amazing how much schmutz accumulates in the axle cups. Hobby Lobby has pointy swabs similar to the Tamiya ones, and they really are perfect for axle cup duty.

In my experience the most common problem with the springy contact strips isn't oxidation, it's how they're bent. When I get a balky secondhand Atlas/Kato/LL loco, more often than not the problem is that the contact strips are applying too much downward pressure, not applying enough downward pressure, or bent inward/outward in such a way that they hang up on the frame or shell and don't touch the truck tab at all. Often a loco will have a different combination of all of the above at each individual contact point. But it only takes a few iterations of bend, test, repeat to get things straightened out.

Yeah another thing is there are almost always little nubs on the mech frames, about halfway between the fuel tank and the truck, that the strips have to slide under to maintain the right pressure on the truck contact.  If I've just reassembled a loco and it has pickup problems I always check that right away because about 90% of the time it's it's failure to get the springs positioned around those right.   Tweezers are indispensable, even though I have small fingers.

[peteski]

Jagged ben is correct.  Since the axles do not fit tightly into the axle cups, they do not ride in the deepest part of the cup. This actually allows the axles to float and self-center.   And for the proof, I serviced Kato P42 which has been under very heavy use with no maintenance.  The axle ends actually wore holes in the bearing cups, and the hole location is higher up in the cup, and slightly off-center since the loco was pretty much running only forward.

Also, to me it still makes sense to fully clean the cups once the trucks are apart, especially since the swabs I use will do that anyway.