Pennsy 40' PS-1s w/ circle keystone

[OldEastRR]

The prototype car came out in '47, and the logo changeover wasn't until '55, so why can't I find this stock paint scheme on this car? Weird there's a big gap in the models.  Looks like MS does make decals that could be used.

[garethashenden]

Just because Pullman Standard introduced the PS1 in 1947 doesn’t mean the Pennsylvania bought any then. Brief research suggests that these cars, class X48, were the first cars to wear the shadow keystone and were delivered with it in 1954. There were also only 20 apparently, so pretty rare cars all things considered.

[thomasjmdavis]

Just because Pullman Standard introduced the PS1 in 1947 doesn’t mean the Pennsylvania bought any then. Brief research suggests that these cars, class X48, were the first cars to wear the shadow keystone and were delivered with it in 1954. There were also only 20 apparently, so pretty rare cars all things considered.

Being that those cars had cushioned underframes, were they assigned to some particular service?  It would be unusual, with the size of the PRR fleet, for them to buy 20 of anything (as opposed to 2000) unless it was to fill a specific need.

Given that the neighboring NYC acquired something like 5000 40' PS-1s in various configurations, and NH had 2500, my guess would be that on any given day, NYC and NH PS-1s on PRR trains outnumbered the PRR own.

[Snark45]

Keep in mind that the PRR X-48 (PS-1) boxcars all had 8' doors

Regards, Harry

[Missaberoad]

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29444.0
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=41592.0

https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_20527
https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_20528
https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_20529

[Dave V]

Just because Pullman Standard introduced the PS1 in 1947 doesn’t mean the Pennsylvania bought any then. Brief research suggests that these cars, class X48, were the first cars to wear the shadow keystone and were delivered with it in 1954. There were also only 20 apparently, so pretty rare cars all things considered.

This is the correct answer. The Shadow Keystone scheme was introduced in 1954 (not 1955 as you state) and the X-48s were (according to the PRR Color Guide) books among the very first cars delivered new to the PRR in that scheme that year. So they would not have worn the earlier Circle Keystone scheme. Sorry!

But if your window includes 1954, you can get away with one in the SK scheme. Otherwise recommend with sticking with X46 (not X46A) and earlier.

[bbussey]

Precision N Scale commissioned Atlas to produce a limited run of the Pennsy PS-1 car when Atlas introduced the 8-foot-door variation.  It came with a standard underframe, so you'd have to model the cushioned underframe as done here:

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[robert3985]

Although I don't model the Pennsy, videos and photos of UP trains often include Pennsy cars (along with other eastern roads cars), so this thread sparks my interest because I want to run UP trains with accurate consists for my chosen location and era.

And, it's one of the reasons I really really like TRW...it's full of a$$hats! ...who know what they're talking about!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[OldEastRR]

wow ... the prr wasn't big into ps-1s. Thanks for all the info, and i do run 1954 so i can pick up one 'new logo' version. Funny how the NH (which is what I model) layout I have will have NH with tons of PS-1s running and the PRR only one. (tho I suppose if there were only 20 PS-1s PRRs in existence, scant chance to see even one on a random NH freight).
I do have lots of X29s, wagon=tops, and 1937 PRR boxes to use instead.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

When you've got Sam Rea in Hollidaysburg, who needs Pullman Standard?

[bbussey]

Pennsy had a ton of class X46 and X46A, which is/was the Deluxe Innovations model, to fill the 40’ boxcar category.

Even with New Haven, there were far more AAR1937 and AAR1944 boxcars than PS-1. So a New Haven PS-1 presence still should be minimal on a New Haven layout.

[OldEastRR]

In photos of the NH (40s-50s) there are a lot of foreign roads in the yards and consists. How much percentage of rolling stock on the RR at any time was home road NH? (all car types)

[garethashenden]

Tim Gilbert did a lot of research on that for the B&M. I imagine the percentage would be similar, as they were neighboring roads with similar terminating routes. I don’t have the results in front of me, I’ll look it up when I get home, but I think something like 10%? It’s been a while since I looked at it, and I’ve been meaning to revisit it, so this is the impetus I need.

[garethashenden]

Tim Gilbert did a lot of research on that for the B&M. I imagine the percentage would be similar, as they were neighboring roads with similar terminating routes. I don’t have the results in front of me, I’ll look it up when I get home, but I think something like 10%? It’s been a while since I looked at it, and I’ve been meaning to revisit it, so this is the impetus I need.

Having reread this for the first time in 20 something years, I'm not sure how directly applicable it is to the New Haven, because I don't know their policies. But I will try to summarize it anyway. The original is in issue #70 of the B&MRRHS' Modelers Notes, Jan-Feb 2001.
The B&M had a policy of loading foreign cars with outbound loads wherever possible. This reduced the total number of cars they needed to own. The boxcar and flatcar fleets were generally part of the national pool, and while they owed a bunch of hoppers, they rarely left the property. The rest of it is dependent on the nation's economy. When things are going well cars can spend years away from home. But when there's a downturn they come home empty quickly to avoid unnecessary per diem charges.

These two charts give a good overview. The second one is particularly interesting as the spike in "B&M cars on the B&M" correlate directly with recessions.

[Missaberoad]

The B&M had a policy of loading foreign cars with outbound loads wherever possible. This reduced the total number of cars they needed to own.

One nit to pick. This wasn't a B&M policy, it was dictated by the AAR interchange rules and was a common practice on all railways. There was even rules for which foreign cars were prefered depending on where the outbound load was destined to. (The ideal situation being send car x back to/towards/thru its home road with a load)

Railroads were also required to maintain fleets relative to their usage. DSS&A was made to buy more boxcars and gondolas because they were using too many foreign cars relative to their fleet size. (I'm not sure how enforceable those AAR orders were, but they were fairly common and to the best of my knowledge followed)

I have some thoughts on fleet size and makeup to share, but I will have to get back to it after work.