Small logging layout .

[Tristan Ashcroft]

Is this that switchback?
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=768297531766366&set=a.531594905436631

You can see the roadbed if you turn on terrain:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=11wfSELoeH3PdgY81vjZQiMfvXuIKPmQ&ll=40.989994630551735%2C-77.8819546519419&z=15
Looks like there was a wye in the middle.

Never knew the trackplan was based on a real place.

I never knew there was a wye there - and I'm still not sure.  Maybe it shows up in modern jeep trails?  There have been a couple recollections from old (old) railroaders on that line in the Keystone in the last 5 or so years, and Micheal Bezilla did a book on the route.  According to at least one guy who ran that line, the PRR did not turn locomotives on the Snowshoe branch and ran them backwards in one direction (I think it was down).  As for the engineering, the line was built long enough ago that the Bald Eagle Branch didn't exist.  They brought the coal and lumber to Bellfonte to put it on a canal boat for a trip at least as far as Lock Haven to get to market.

[Chris333]

If you go to the area on Google maps and turn on terrain you can see the outline of the roadbed. It looks like there could possibly be a wye there. Or it was just a shallow area with a ledge to look like roadbed could follow.

I have no knowledge either way:

[randgust]

That might make more sense than you think, again, remember the rule, keep the firebox down to keep the crown sheet covered.

There was a switchback in Colorado that had a turntable at the tail for that exact reason.   

I've been told the magic number was about 4%.  Go above that and you better have a purpose-built logging engine, or don't run nose down a grade with anything less than a full water glass.

And since nearly all logging railroads in the east didn't use air brakes, you always put the locomotive on the downhill side with a loaded train, with your 'crew' on the handbrakes.   If you want to see the ultimate pucker logging video, this is in Australia, with a Climax A in neutral gear, hang on boys... smoke your brake shoes if you've got 'em.

That is, by the way, possibly the only video ever shot of a running Climax A in service.  Climax went out of business in 1928, remember, this was shot in 1924, but the Climax book shows a couple A's as some of the last built - for export.

[metalworkertom]

A lot of great information being shared . Thanks all !!
I did some drawing and decided to put some track down for a better idea. Rough idea . Going to do some tweaking but I like it so far .

[randgust]

PM or email me on that one, I've got some suggestions to tweak that but they don't have to go over five pages of thread here, at least not yet!

[wm3798]

My favorite method of track planning!

[metalworkertom]

I did some free hand drawing.  And some using a template from 20 years ago.  Wasn't happy with the results. Couldn't keep with the laying track out plan right now . So had to learn SCARM again.  Getting closer.

[Chris333]

I drew in the switchback to the sand pit Randy mentioned.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1KhrthMIDaLhSXyRe9q7mULuZRHy6BRte&ll=41.7773338683189%2C-79.4632516084876&z=17

[chessie system fan]

I predict you'll want a longer switchback track on that upper line.  It looks like there's room for just a locomotive but no cars.

[randgust]

Your over/under on the 'left side' looks like it's creating a relatively impossible grade/clearance situation, even for a logging railroad.

This region did have a surprising number of sand quarries, and a lot of logging railroads, but I'm not aware of any operation that did both at the same time.  Different skill sets.   Also oil, but piplelines took over by 1870 for oil movement from the fields.  And while coal and lumber were also in the same regions, the usual process was a logging railroad that was cut-out, and suddenly coal was discovered - which was the story of the Cheat River Railroad in West Virginia; aka the Western Maryland line all the way to Spruce with those brutal grades and curves - started as a logging line then became a coal line, but not at the same time.  Same story behind the Pittsburg & Western; narrow gauge logging and common carrier, then standard gauge coal as B&O, then a tourist railroad, now a trail.

In my area there was one spot where there were three different logging railroads present at different times, going after different targets; a low-end narrow gauge line with a tiny sawmill, then a much bigger standard gauge operation that cut EVERYTHING to the dirt and left, and finally rebuilding on the very same grade for a third line to bring in chemical wood on a much long haul to the same spot that had previously been a sawmill.   And that territory has continuously evolved and is still active second growth forest today, just modern methods.   Mayburg, PA, now just a collection of hunting camps.

The sand operation at Torpedo, PA was an incredible oddball using a pair of narrow-gauge Climax A's, and it looked like a Colorado mining operation, but it didn't directly interchange anything and didn't log.  ("digging sand" book)  The other sand operations regionally simply had service from the connecting Class 1, in the Althom area it was PRR.

[metalworkertom]

I'm still working out details like track length in areas . And the grade for crossover. Still learning SCARM again forgot all I had learned about the program.  Getting there though.

[randgust]

I had a devil of a time figuring out mine, stuck with 'carryable' size, and even a 21x42 turned out to be a LOT heavier than 18x36 in the end product.   I'm doing scenery on it right now, hundreds and hundreds of trees.

I basically ended up with three levels - the lower level staging yard (3 tracks) and two connectors to other modules; the visible level at log-pond level of the existing Hickory Valley, and the 'upper level' to the logging area switchback.  That track has MINIMUM clearance over the first level and required 4% grades.   

My short tail track on the switchback only allows for a locomotive and 3-4 log bunks, my two loading tracks really only fit 4-5.  Other tail track only long enough to move the locomotive from one cut to another to swap loads and empties.   The 'fix' on that was the fact that the extension for the tail track at the top of the hill can be attached to the back of the Hickory Valley module backdrop as it is narrower.  One of the more odd design features invented from necessity.

My prototype - Hickory Valley - had two switchbacks to get to the top of the hill and down the valley to get to the other side- and it was a common carrier of sorts but a logging railroad at heart. 

With the locomotive at the back pushing uphill, and pulling into the log dump, it was trapped so a double-ended siding was necessary to swap cuts of loads for empties, and then reposition empties as a push move on the dump track.

Years ago I had a buddy with a basement sized N layout; 42" height.  I designed a massive and removable logging module that fit OVER TOP of his  standard fuel oil tank in the basement, which was like 60" up to the top.  MULTIPLE grades and switchbacks, with an eye-level log landing perched on top.    The mill and interchange module below had to clear the sewer line exit out of the wall, buried inside a removable mountain.

That area got christened "Falling Waters" for obvious reasons, and the logging branch became "Oil Tank Flats".   So I've done far crazier things in layout design.

This was the same massive basement layout that was capable of 100-car trains of Micro-trains 34' hoppers behind a single Rowa 2-8-8-2.   

[randgust]

This has legitimately become 'ancient history' now as I built this module when I was just a kid and it's now an unbelievable 48 years old and still runs reliably.   It's only 18x36, and was on top of a dresser.  The odd corner bevel is because I had to be able to get my bedroom closet door open.  I started it in 1976, really, when there was virtually nothing available for eastern logging. 

I was going away to college, wanted something to work on, designed it very portable and tiny.  and HIDDEN, because something like this in an apartment or dorm room is best left under cover, particularly on a date.  So it has a carry case built for it and can be lugged around like a suitcase.  And it's built with plywood and pine, screws, and reinforcements, glad I did that.

It was originally designed as a hidden storage siding, that was torn apart and modified to a full reverse loop UNDER the mill, so it is a stacked loop to loop with 8" radius curves and a rather wicked 4.5% grade that limits me to about 4 cars and a caboose behind a 2-6-0; she slips beyond that.


For power, I have a heavily rebuilt Rapido 0-6-0 to a 2-6-0 and now with a tender with 8x8 Kato caboose truck pickup, and a reliable motor.  It just creeps.  Also an assortment of Atlas Shay, Atlas 2-6-0, another rebuilt 2-6-0, my original "Bigfoot" Heisler made from a Roco GP30 frame (cut down) that I did in '76, a scratchbuilt 25-ton shay, a 30-ton scratchbuilt Climax B.....and a collection of Climax A's from my kits.    For shows I mostly run the old Rapido, it's a beater now but highly reliable and maintainable.

All the buildings are scratchbuild following photos of Wheeler & Dusenbury, Endeavor, PA in the 1920's, where my parents worked.  The 'white house' was my fathers office building, still standing today in Endeavor.

The layout was featured in the July 1995 issue of Model Railroader.

I've got sound in it for both the mill racket and the trains, and now it is paired with the second logging "Ross Run" module that extends everything out to the left side including the log pond, log dump, switchback to log landing, and a hidden 3 track staging yard. 

Both modules will be at Altoona in September near Dave Ferrari's T-trak layout.

Hickory Valley module:



link:  http://www.randgust.com/HVRRlayout.jpg

I get asked a lot of questions about the trees, that's Woodland Scenics foliage on twigs.    That tree density has come back to haunt me though as I've continued to build modules the same way, requiring literally hundreds and hundreds of those kind of trees.

[Sumner]

....Hickory Valley module:



link:  http://www.randgust.com/HVRRlayout.jpg.....

Love that layout and have saved multiple pictures of it that you took from different angles.  Studied it a lot before starting on my sawmill scene (not done).  Great work!!

Sumner

[metalworkertom]

I'm planning on having this layout based loosely in South Louisiana around the North Side of Lake Ponchatrain . 40 ' s / 50's . My family logged in that area in that time frame . Cypress being cut for the most part . Previous to that they cut railroad ties in Arkansas and Missouri.  Felled the trees and squared them with broad axes and adz . Bringing finished green ties out of the woods . A cousin said he can remember my grandfather Bringing a tie out on each shoulder.  Tough work .
I was going to do a gravel operation on my full room layout.  I may have to do a add on . The gravel operation originally planned was the Louisiana Eastern Railroad . Located in the same general area and a Big collector of Steam power .

https://www.meridianspeedway.net/louisiana-eastern-story.html