He's gonna need a lot of help on this one....

[MK]

Randy, sorry, correction.  I have the Locobuffer USB (not II).  I've used it with JMRI on a WinXP laptop and subsequent newer versions of Windows.

[randgust]

Well, I think I'm pretty much painted into a corner here starting with the DCS50 and the LocoBuffer versions and JMRI.   I don't have anything running Win7 with a native RS232C serial port except a barely-functional Lenovo desktop dual booted to XP and Win7 that I keep hanging around to run old software. 
So here's my resulting assumptions, testing this group. (yes or no?).   

1)   I have an old Digitrax DCS50 Zephyr.   It has the network plugs in the back for LocoNet.   OTHER than the LocoBuffer, do I need something else?
2)   The only version of LocoBuffer that works with the DCS50 is the LocoBuffer II, which is not available.  Apparently anywhere.
3)   The older JMRI versions for LocoBufferII can still work with Win7 OS. 
4)   LocoBuffer-USB current does not work for any OS lower than Win10 (drivers listings)
5)   It might be possible to do a USB to serial converter in some manner for the current JMRI to Locobuffer II but it's sketchy
6)   The older versions of JMRI compatible with 7 and LocoBufferII can access the current Tsunami 1100 decoder (that's a big one)

There's a lot of moving pieces here, I'll make an attempt to set the CV's direct in the DCS50 rather than get lost here, but darn, I really wanted to run JMRI, I just don't think it's possible with the DCS50 downstream.

 

[randgust]

I got everything tucked back in the tender, got the weight back in, set up my test track again....

And it works on the Tsunami 1100 decoder defaults.   Sorta.   Don't know what's different from the first awful test, but it runs on the Zephyr.  Speed steps are twitchy, but it will still creep.  Headlight works.  Nice and smooth too.   I did set up a second 6-pin connector so I can bench run the mechanism just on DC.

I got a TCS 2-pin disconnect for the speaker so I can permanently mount it in the coal pile area, I'm gonna put that in the tender, might as well see if the default sound works here.

But at very worst, I do have an operational DCC Trix rebuilt Decapod.   Still can't program my way out of a wet paper bag but the default settings work.  That's major.  If I couldn't get that to even work I was about ready to pull everything and go back to DC.

[randgust]

OK, next stupid DCC question.

I probably have room in the tender to put that supplied capacitor in, the 1100 has dedicated wires for it.

So do you have to wait for the capacitor to discharge until you can put it over on programming mode?  I would think same rules for a keep-alive add-on, it's the same thing.

I've never worked with a decoder with that feature.

[peteski]

OK, next stupid DCC question.

I probably have room in the tender to put that supplied capacitor in, the 1100 has dedicated wires for it.

So do you have to wait for the capacitor to discharge until you can put it over on programming mode?  I would think same rules for a keep-alive add-on, it's the same thing.

I've never worked with a decoder with that feature.

A capacitor add-on?  It was included with the decoder? With dedicated wires?  What capacitance value?
If it is included as part of the decoder install then there should be nothing special to do for programming the decoder on programming track.  And all decoders have internal capacitors to smooth out their internal voltages.  Remember, most DCC users are just hobbyists, not electronic techs.   

As for causing damage, there is pretty much nothing you can do on the programming track to damage either the decoder or the command station. Well, if you connected 120V AC to the programming track, you will cause damage, but nothing in the decoder can damage the command station and vice-versa.  The programming track is current limited, just so no damage will occur with something being miswired.  And none of the internal caps or keep-alive circuits in the decoder can back-feed the power to the track.

Back when DCC was developed, (before sound decoders) things were simple, and everything just worked.  But with sound decoders needing more power to operate, and with extra capacitors in the decoders, the limited power of the programming track is sometimes not adequate for programming them.  Best thing to do is to try programming it with the capacitor attached (per manufacturer's instructions).  If it does not take programming then try disconnecting the cap.

Also keep in mind that some decoders (like BLI for example) are notoriously difficult to program on the programming track of several brands of command stations). But you don't have to worry about this with your decoder.

[randgust]

Yup, here's from the installation manual:

"CurrentKeeper Installation
The TSU-1100 and UK ECO-100 both include an optional 220µF, 25V capacitor or may be used
with a SoundTraxx CurrentKeeper to maintain performance during momentary power losses.
The included capacitor has a grey stripe on one side with a negative symbol (-) in it. This marks
the negative terminal of the capacitor.
To install a CurrentKeeper, remove the connector and trim the blue and black wires to about 3”.
Strip and tin the ends of the CurrentKeeper’s wires, as well as the decoder’s blue (Function
Common) and green/yellow stripe (Ground) wires"

I didn't actually think I'd have room for it, but the speaker is taking up way less space than I thought, and I'd think conventional wisdom would be to put it in if it were feasible at all.

[peteski]

220µF is rather insignificant size capacitor as far as keep-alive circuits go, but every micro-Farad helps in improving the running quality. Should have no effect on the programming process.

[NDave]

I've got TSU-1100 (Tsunami 2 Steam 2) decoders in all five of my locos... 3 small Bachmann steamers use the 220 uF capacitors that Soundtraxx provides, I installed a 1000 uF capacitor in my FEF-3, and 2 x 220 uF in my Athearn challenger. They seem to have NO effect on programming using my NCE Powercab.

[randgust]

OK, update time.

I got it installed, and tested, and first, it ran.  Not great, but ran, and I could creep it although the throttle steps are way off.

Got brave and put the speaker in the coal pile area, and much to my surprise, it worked.   And the sound, other than the synchronization with the driver RPM, is actually quite good.   Whistles, headlight, bell, all work on defaults with the old Zephyr.

Got REALLY brave and took it apart and got the optional capacitor in there too, and even more surprisingly, didn't mess up what had already worked.   The fact that it didn't work differently was the best part.   Jamming all this in that little tender plus a 6-pin plug for the locomotive connection and a 2-pin plug so I can get the tender body shell off with the speaker glued in it, well, it's done. 

I 'think' there's a little more room in there for weight, and I have to figure out some kind of foam coal pile cover over the speaker, and then..

Get to mess with trying to program anything here.   I'll give it a shot.

By my standard and expectation it's an overwhelming success.   The only things I REALLY have to change:

1)   Decoder address to agree with locomotive number
2)   Speed table so it's more controllable
3)   Exhaust RPM vs. speed as right now it's one beat in two revolutions instead of 4 beats in one.

But basically, it works.  Pretty much out of the box.   Which is what I was hoping, defaults got me started even with the sound settings.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I had complete faith all along.

[randgust]

Well, I didn't.   My first decoder experience doing a custom build for one of my little Climax A's was a total disaster. 

I went through over a year and a half trying to figure out why it surged on low speed.  Sent it to Lee Weldon, he tried to fix it and gave up.   Got two warranty replacements.  Both failed.

Finally gave up and refunded the money to the client, took the decoder out, trashed it, and sold it as a DC model.  Worked great.

Now I'm putting DZ126T's in them routinely, and they just work.   But that first try?  Ready to go back to pushing a Brio train.

[peteski]

Well, I didn't.   My first decoder experience doing a custom build for one of my little Climax A's was a total disaster. 

I went through over a year and a half trying to figure out why it surged on low speed.  Sent it to Lee Weldon, he tried to fix it and gave up.   Got two warranty replacements.  Both failed.

Remind me what brand/model decoder did you use, and what type of motor was in that model?

[randgust]

TCS Z2, way back in 2013.   Yeesh.   I was told my models were 'too small' to run DCC then.

That was in a Kato 11-105 chassis with the 12V motor, and now I've done maybe 8 builds with the Digitrax DZ126T, no problems, no fails.

I was on a weekly zoom call with our NMRA region guys last night, and they were stunned that I got DCC and sound in that little N tender.  Poor HO guys....I'm the only N scaler of any detail level.   You forget sometimes the level of challenge we've come to accept as perfectly normal!

[peteski]

TCS Z2 at that time had a firmware bug which causes weird response to speed steps. As you increase the speed on the throttle, at certain incrementing speed steps the model will actually slow down.  It is really weird.  My Z2 from around that time frame has that problem and I found out on the forums that it is a bug.  I asked about this at the TCS boot at the Springfield show several years ago and they confirmed that this was a bug.  I don't even recall if they told me if newer production runs of the decoder had that bug fixed (or how to tell) - I was done with the Z2 (and TCS decoders in general).

As I see it, there is no such thing as a model that's too small for a decoder.  There are many tiny N scale and Z scale locos with decoders (some factory installed) and they run fine.  I asked about the motor is because some decoders have hard time dealing with coreless motors, but if it was a standard motor with iron-core armature, even the smallest one should be fully controllable with DCC decoders.

[randgust]

I just finished another decoder install in a Kato 11-105 with a 3V gearhead motor with a dropping resistor.   The DZ126T gets dropped down inside the frame by carving out a big hole under the circuit board.  Just fits between the trucks.  Works great.  That's been my go-to decoder here, I've never had trouble with them if I can get them to fit.