Kato Big Boy Decoder

[nightmare0331]

I thought the Big Boy decoder installs were done in Japan.  Kato is certainly feeling the pain after Kelley D. left.

So...

The Soundtraxx equpped versions were done/retrofitted by the factory in Japan.
The Digitrax versions are being done here in the States.

The 'factory equipped' Soundtraxx versions were interesting.  I actually upgraded one here by converting it to ESU LokSound.  The motors were wired in reverse and fixed with CV changes.  The overall install suprised me on how sloppy it was.  I could certainly see that for a small custom install, but from what I understand, they did over a thousand at the factory.  Couple that with the defect rate when these arrived in the states was horrendously high to an unknown retailer who resides in Lombard, IL who recived the first group, so they all had to be double checked or reworked.

Both the DCC and DCC/Sound units were way the hell behind because no matter how quick you are, it's still a 2 hour install to do correctly.  More if anything goes wrong.  Maybe you could shave it down to 1 hour 45 minutes. This is primarily because you have to dismantle quite a bit of the unit to get to the forward light board to isolate and have to wire both coreless motors. Also, I'm finding continuity between the drivers and the tender pickups usually needs to be addressed by bending contacts, scraping blackening away, etc.  I'd be curious how many would cut out if you lightly lifted the tender off of the tracks and only relied on the driver pickup itself.

This would have been an A+ model for Kato had the Big Boy actually been reasonably DCC friendly.  The install is beyond the ability of most casual modelers (yes, I know there are outliers).

Interesting times for sure!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com
www.facebook.com/dufordmodelworks

[robert3985]

...The 'factory equipped' Soundtraxx versions were interesting.  I actually upgraded one here by converting it to ESU LokSound....

Interesting times for sure!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com
www.facebook.com/dufordmodelworks

Just for curiosity's sake, why do you think replacing the Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 with an ESU LokSound decoder is an "upgrade..."?

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nightmare0331]

Just for curiosity's sake, why do you think replacing the Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 with an ESU LokSound decoder is an "upgrade..."?

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

The same reason you seem to think soundtraxx makes great sound decoders on the previous page....opinion, subjectivenesss and preferences.  Coke vs. Pepsi and all that stuff.

That said, the customer who wanted it done had all ESU locos otherwise and wanted standardization, and who am I to argue with what they want to pay for?

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com
www.facebook.com/dufordmodelworks

[robert3985]

The same reason you seem to think soundtraxx makes great sound decoders on the previous page....opinion, subjectivenesss and preferences.  Coke vs. Pepsi and all that stuff.

That said, the customer who wanted it done had all ESU locos otherwise and wanted standardization, and who am I to argue with what they want to pay for?

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com
www.facebook.com/dufordmodelworks

Actually, my reasons have to do with being able to manipulate the sound to an individual preference using the Tsunami's integral equalizer and comparing the sounds on the Tsunami against the sounds on the LokSound as compared to my live recordings of UP steam engines (844, 3985, 4014).  I'm able to get a much more realistic sound quality out of my Tsunamis than I am with my Loksounds...especially the whistle, the brake squeal and the rod clank...as well as the chuff after I mess with the Tsunami's frequency equalizer. 

I don't "seem to think" Soundtraxx makes great sound decoders, I know it...for steam engines.  As I also wrote in my comment on the previous page...I put LokSound decoders in all of my diesel engines since their diesel sound quality is the best.

So, my reasons have little to do with "subjectiveness"...more to do with comparing sound to actual recordings of the real engines I have vs the model engines I've got both Tsunamis and LokSounds in, although there's a certain amount of subjectivity in any sensory comparison.

I was looking for actual reasons you might consider the LokSound as an upgrade over the Soundtraxx, not merely a comment about subjectivity.

I definitely understand about customer preference however.  My customers often have preferences I don't agree with, but, if they're set in what they want, the money spends just as well as if I did it my own way.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

I think that the issue with Kato Big Boy's design is that the powers-that-be wanted a unique dual-motor articulated steam loco, which by design made it difficult to wire up.  The design itself is very clever (but complex), especially how they decided to connect things electrically. This makes it a good DC loco, and difficult to digitalize.  As I understand, DCC is not  very popular in Japan anyways.   If the Soundtraxx installs were done in Japan, I am thoroughly unimpressed with the lack of fastidiousness the Japanese are famous for. The rest of the model still shows the typical Japanese touch.

Bob,  the more recent decoder firmware (which is upgradable in ESU but not in Soundtraxx), does include a rudimentary equalizer, and I suspect it  might get more advanced in future firmware releases.   This is all digital sound processing, so it can be done with firmware updates.  But I also understand that you like the actual sound featuers of the Soundtraxx decoders than ESU's version.

Kelley, you speak of electrical wipers in the locomotive?  There are no wipers at the drivers. The only springy contacts are at each engine's pivot point, connecting them to the split-frame "spine" in the boiler.  Are those unreliable?

[bbunge]

...  I'm able to get a much more realistic sound quality out of my Tsunamis than I am with my Loksounds...especially the whistle, the brake squeal and the rod clank...as well as the chuff after I mess with the Tsunami's frequency equalizer. 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Bob,  can you briefly describe what sort of changes you are making to the equalizer.  In general, I find the Soundtraxx documentation to be somewhat lacking, or perhaps confusing, and usually learn more by listening to Norman on youtube. 

Bob

[nstars]

Actually, my reasons have to do with being able to manipulate the sound to an individual preference using the Tsunami's integral equalizer and comparing the sounds on the Tsunami against the sounds on the LokSound as compared to my live recordings of UP steam engines (844, 3985, 4014).  I'm able to get a much more realistic sound quality out of my Tsunamis than I am with my Loksounds...especially the whistle, the brake squeal and the rod clank...as well as the chuff after I mess with the Tsunami's frequency equalizer. 

I don't "seem to think" Soundtraxx makes great sound decoders, I know it...for steam engines.  As I also wrote in my comment on the previous page...I put LokSound decoders in all of my diesel engines since their diesel sound quality is the best.

So, my reasons have little to do with "subjectiveness"...more to do with comparing sound to actual recordings of the real engines I have vs the model engines I've got both Tsunamis and LokSounds in, although there's a certain amount of subjectivity in any sensory comparison.

I was looking for actual reasons you might consider the LokSound as an upgrade over the Soundtraxx, not merely a comment about subjectivity.

I definitely understand about customer preference however.  My customers often have preferences I don't agree with, but, if they're set in what they want, the money spends just as well as if I did it my own way.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

For me the way the Tsunami can produce steam sound is the best I know off and I have locos with soundtraxx, ESU, Zimo an Doehler & Haas sound decoders. The unfortunate part is that you do need to reprogram the decoder quite extensively to get the best sound out of the decoder. At factory settings the sound is only reasonable. It’s not only the equalizer, but among other settings also the DDE, momentum and BEMF which need programming.

Marc

[jagged ben]

DDE??

[nstars]

DDE??

DDE = Dynamic Digital Exhaust. That’s what creates the great steam sounds.

Marc