Kato annouces early version sd40-2

[wmcbride]

(Attachment Link)

Obviously they don't have road specific details. In fact 3 out of 4 of the numbers are incorrect for the phase used. But it looks good. Details seem to be about the same level as Kato. I have one on pre-order for the article.

I see Bachmann and ST are in agreement in having holes in fuel tanks to "let the sound out." Argh!

[C855B]

My lousy iPhone photo at least illustrates the hood width difference between the Kato and ScaleTrains 40-2:

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[Point353]

My lousy iPhone photo at least illustrates the hood width difference between the Kato and ScaleTrains 40-2:

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One could easily find either of those two alternatives to be acceptable if you've been around long enough to know that this is what once passed for a model of an SD40-2.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

One could easily find either of those two alternatives to be acceptable if you've been around long enough to know that this is what once passed for a model of an SD40-2.

It's a fascinating trip!

[mecgp7]

Here's what gets me. I get it that SD40-2s are hugely popular, but if you are manufacturing a model that is readily available from numerous manufacturers then why produce the same paint schemes that everyone and yourself have already done to death?

[dem34]

Here's what gets me. I get it that SD40-2s are hugely popular, but if you are manufacturing a model that is readily available from numerous manufacturers then why produce the same paint schemes that everyone and yourself have already done to death?

Because for a few years now they were unobtanium with every N scaler champing at the bit to get one. With those being the most requested schemes.

[bman]

That's actually a really good point.

And if this is the start of an era of decent models being available at multiple price points, I'd say that's a positive for our hobby.

But who would've ever thought a Kato model would be the "bargain option"?

Not me. Am I wrong in thinking if it were not for Kato we wouldn't be having this conversation. I remember gawking the CR GP38-2 in the hobby shop window when it arrived. Now look at where N scale is.
 

[Dave V]

Not me. Am I wrong in thinking if it were not for Kato we wouldn't be having this conversation. I remember gawking the CR GP38-2 in the hobby shop window when it arrived. Now look at where N scale is.

Good point. As far as N scale locomotives go, Kato may well be the giant upon whose shoulders the new manufacturers stand. I remember fondly how well my Kato diesels and GG1s ran. And that Kato 2-8-2...now that set the bar for N scale steam performance.

[peteski]

The screwless 'shock absorber' design with the sprung middle axle has had some issues.  People made too much of the trucks popping out in shipment (just pop 'em back in) but the fragile wheel wiper and the finer tooth gears are not as durable. 

BTW has anyone else noticed (okay I bet peteski has) that those pieces are copper on Kato and brass on Atlas and Intermountain?  Probably another reason Kato runs better.

LOL!  Well, Chris noticed the strip material too.    Seriously, copper is way too soft for this.  I'm also not sure if those are phosphor bronze either, or maybe just some different brass alloy.  The bottom line is that yes, those Kato strips work pretty well.

Overall tolerances and quality of part finish can't be beat in Katos.  They really are precision engineered and manufactured (still in Japan , not China).
For example if you closely examine the edges of those pickup  strips, you will notice Kato's are cleanly cut where Atlas and some other brands (made in China), the edge is distorted from the cutting process.  "Why do I care" you say?  Well all that adds up to overall quality of the model.  While Kato models might not have the best level of details (they never use any glue, which to me is also big plus), they to me are the best made and reliable models.

However I also think they sometimes over-engineer their models.  Those new design trucks are just too problem prone on an average layout. The finie pitch gears make them very smooth running, but even the tiniest speck of ballast getting in those gears will cause problems. Same with the sprung center axle. The springy bearing cups can easily be distorted by a typical modeler while cleaning the wheels or in somewhat rough handling. 

These models would be perfect running in some sterile dust-free environment, but not on an average layout.  Each trucks also has 6 idler-gears!  They are a pain to deal with when servicing trucks.  The original low-friction truck design with coarser gears was IMO the pinnacle of Kato's truck design.  I'm also not really on board with the screw-less design, but I do look at if from the servicing perspective, since that's what I do.  An average modeler will not care how the chassis halves are fastened.

[Philip H]

No amount of add on details will fix the hood width, too deep sills, or squinty number boards.

It's one thing to add road specific details.
But to fix the ways these fall short of their modern competition requires a complete rebuild.

You know, the hood width stuff for N scale diesels is a real rivet counting 3 foot rule violation.  Take this picture:

(Attachment Link)

Maybe I need more coffee or my monitor isn't that good, but I don't see a difference that matters. I mean we are griping about milimeters here guys.  None of these folks have scale hand rails, and none have bothered to paint units white with big red KCS on the side (and yes I have a grey IM and will probably get a Belle from someone).  At least Kato used to make undecs, so I could roll my own.

[C855B]

Good point. As far as N scale locomotives go, Kato may well be the giant upon whose shoulders the new manufacturers stand. I remember fondly how well my Kato diesels and GG1s ran. And that Kato 2-8-2...now that set the bar for N scale steam performance.

No doubt there at all. But Kato's (originally Sekisui Kinzoku) innovation in operability was established for US N scale models in 1967 with Jim Conway's importing the PA-1. And the basic mechanism has been refined since, and copied by others, ad infinitum. This hobby niche was made on Kato's superior design.

But in regards to model fidelity, which was fabulously good for 1967... well... Kato has barely moved the needle on that front in the intervening years, reissuing model after model using tooling from the 1980s. Yes, perfectly acceptable when the "three-foot rule" is invoked, but the relative newcomers have been raising that bar. We now have RTR modeling quality that almost invites the unblinking eye of close-up photography. You HO'ers... take that! 

Many of us serious devotees value model fidelity. The operating performance nut was cracked a long time ago. We can, thankfully, now have our cake and eat it, too.

I find the ScaleTrains SD40-2 a fine-looking and fine-operating addition to the fleet. Same for every other ScaleTrains loco on my pike. Same goes for BLI's recent offering, with the decoder caveat. The Kato SD40-2 will be a superb runner, absolutely, but at this late date becomes something of a backgrounder in your diesel shop scene.

[peteski]

Mike,, if you are serious operator expect all those fine added-on details disappearing from those models.  You even mentioned that the fine lines on the trucks are going too far.  Again, do you want a museum-quality model, or an "operators model"?  I know, you want the best of both worlds. 

As I mentioned elsewhere Kato uses no glue anywhere on their models.  The molding precision and parts engineering are so  tight that no glue is needed.

No-glue assembly is probably the main reason they do not have things like sunshades or free standing grabs or steps.  All  those details also require labor (and the price goes up).  And if you look really closely at your super-detailed Scale Trains model, you will see glue stains.  That is the price to pay for all those details being applied at an assembly line, not by some individual applying them carefully on their hobby workbench.

To me it is a difficult balance between the level of detail and robustness.

[C855B]

You know, the hood width stuff for N scale diesels is a real rivet counting 3 foot rule violation.  Take this picture:

Maybe I need more coffee or my monitor isn't that good, but I don't see a difference that matters. I mean we are griping about millimeters here guys. ...

Where 2mm = 1 scale foot, and the hood is 4mm too wide, ~15% larger than the prototype (and the ST version). It was a lousy picture, so I did myself no favors there. The width difference is most visible around the fans.

What is visible to me is the proportions. Length, good. Height, good enough. Frame width, good. Hood width, uhhhhhhh... somethin's off here. It's especially noticeable in the nose. Consists with other makers' models tend to exacerbate my perception.

YMMV, obviously.

[ridinshotgun]

No doubt there at all. But Kato's (originally Sekisui Kinzoku) innovation in operability was established for US N scale models in 1967 with Jim Conway's importing the PA-1. And the basic mechanism has been refined since, and copied by others, ad infinitum. This hobby niche was made on Kato's superior design.

But in regards to model fidelity, which was fabulously good for 1967... well... Kato has barely moved the needle on that front in the intervening years, reissuing model after model using tooling from the 1980s. Yes, perfectly acceptable when the "three-foot rule" is invoked, but the relative newcomers have been raising that bar. We now have RTR modeling quality that almost invites the unblinking eye of close-up photography. You HO'ers... take that! 

Many of us serious devotees value model fidelity. The operating performance nut was cracked a long time ago. We can, thankfully, now have our cake and eat it, too.

I find the ScaleTrains SD40-2 a fine-looking and fine-operating addition to the fleet. Same for every other ScaleTrains loco on my pike. Same goes for BLI's recent offering, with the decoder caveat. The Kato SD40-2 will be a superb runner, absolutely, but at this late date becomes something of a backgrounder in your diesel shop scene.

Well for your sample size of one I have exactly the opposite experience with ST stuff and I value running reliability over fidelity and that nut has NOT been cracked yet no matter your experience.

I have three platforms from ST. The -9, turbine and C39 with multiples in the last two categories.  Of the three platforms only the -9 have been trouble free and it is from their operator series.  The turbine has had multiple trips back to ST and still doesn't run 100% to my liking.  The C39 are just poor performers and spend most of their time in a box since they can't play nice with anything else I want to consist with. Maybe they should stick with the operator line to focus a bit more on reliability.  But yeah otherwise pretty locos that gather dust are the epitome of model railroading.   

Not to mention their rolling stock. I was all in on their first freight car the carbon black hoppers.  What a disappointment they were and I still go back and forth with them on those because of the poor couplers, miscast coupler box and wobbling cars.  I swore off their freight stuff since then.  I have some stuff on preorder that is coming up but only one car at a time till I can see if I will get burned or not.

But hey for a company that claims to be committed to perfection they are just hitting out the park with my stuff.

[jagged ben]

Mike,, if you are serious operator expect all those fine added-on details disappearing from those models.  You even mentioned that the fine lines on the trucks are going too far.  Again, do you want a museum-quality model, or an "operators model"?  I know, you want the best of both worlds. 

As I mentioned elsewhere Kato uses no glue anywhere on their models.  The molding precision and parts engineering are so  tight that no glue is needed.

No-glue assembly is probably the main reason they do not have things like sunshades or free standing grabs or steps.  All  those details also require labor (and the price goes up).  And if you look really closely at your super-detailed Scale Trains model, you will see glue stains.  That is the price to pay for all those details being applied at an assembly line, not by some individual applying them carefully on their hobby workbench.

To me it is a difficult balance between the level of detail and robustness.

Nah.  Kato has had press-fit handrails and MU hoses on models for decades now.  The ATSF/BNSF 'mid-production' SD40-2s have press-fit attached air conditioners and antenna planes.  Some of their steam locos have press fit pipes, etc.  I don't buy that it's about glue.  Kato could press-fit sunshades and separate grabs if they wanted to.