New Phrozen Printer "Sonic Mighty Revo"

[Jesse6669]

https://us.phrozen3d.com/products/sonic-mighty-revo?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_us_revo_launch_pre-order_start_20240216
Says 14K resolution but not sure how this translates to actual resolution with 10" diagonal screen, 16.8 μm x 24.8 μm.

It has the largest print volume of the Phrozen lineup.  It's pretty expensive relative to some competitors at $999.  It seems pretty robust, has a vat heater, auto leveling.

They also announced a new resin, Aqua Hyperfine resin.  I'm already a big fan of Aqua 8K and this stuff is "better".

I've been using the Mini 8K and very happy with it but I am tempted to upgrade.

[JeffB]

https://us.phrozen3d.com/products/sonic-mighty-revo?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_us_revo_launch_pre-order_start_20240216
Says 14K resolution but not sure how this translates to actual resolution with 10" diagonal screen, 16.8 μm x 24.8 μm.

It has the largest print volume of the Phrozen lineup.  It's pretty expensive relative to some competitors at $999.  It seems pretty robust, has a vat heater, auto leveling.

They also announced a new resin, Aqua Hyperfine resin.  I'm already a big fan of Aqua 8K and this stuff is "better".

I've been using the Mini 8K and very happy with it but I am tempted to upgrade.

Interesting...  Not sure how beneficial a rectangular pixel will be, even if the resolution is 16.8µ on the "short side".  But it's quite the unit with a lot of built in features that the gadget loving younger crowd would appreciate.

Jeff

[robert3985]

https://us.phrozen3d.com/products/sonic-mighty-revo?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_us_revo_launch_pre-order_start_20240216
Says 14K resolution but not sure how this translates to actual resolution with 10" diagonal screen, 16.8 μm x 24.8 μm.

It has the largest print volume of the Phrozen lineup.  It's pretty expensive relative to some competitors at $999.  It seems pretty robust, has a vat heater, auto leveling.

They also announced a new resin, Aqua Hyperfine resin.  I'm already a big fan of Aqua 8K and this stuff is "better".

I've been using the Mini 8K and very happy with it but I am tempted to upgrade.

The Phrozen Sonic Mighty Revo has a lot of bells and whistles, some necessary, some just glitz...BUT, none of them actually contribute to an increase in print quality vs the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k.

14k doesn't mean anything.  What counts is the size and dimension of the voxel when focused right above the FEP (or whatever is being used as the bottom of the vat) into that lowest layer of resin.

However, you can get a pretty good idea of the relative print quality (resolution) of MSLA LCD 3D resin printers by looking at the size of the LCD's pixel at the LCD.  Even though the Mini 8k is "only" 8k, the size of its square pixels are only 22 microns.  The Mighty Revo, with a 14k screen...but a much bigger screen...and with highly rectangular pixels (instead of square pixels) has a pixel size of 16.8 microns X 24.8 microns...and effective screen resolution is taken to be the LARGEST measurement...which is 24.8 microns.

This means that your Mini 8k has the better resolution and will produce theoretically higher quality prints than the $1,000 14k Revo. In reality, however, you're not going to see a 2.8 micron difference...it just will not be visible...so print quality is virtually the same.

That being said, the Revo has a 10" screen, much larger than your Mini 8k's 7.1" screen, which will allow you to produce more prints and/or larger prints in a single session.  Personally, I really appreciate the larger print envelope of my 10" machine, but, there are times when I wish I had a smaller high-resolution machine just for the convenience of not having to handle the volume of resin for doing a one-off or a pre-production prototype.

The Revo has other convenience features that add to its value (but not to the quality of the prints it produces) such as auto leveling, a heated vat, a precision Z-axis ball screw instead of a lead screw, failure and residue detection, an air filter, a cut-out on the cover for attaching an exhaust hose, a really nice and convenient flip-up cover, interior light for better visibility of what's going on while printing, sealed Z-axis motor housing, easily replaceable LCD, a better UI and more...

If all that's important, it appears to me that its $1000 price tag is just about right, especially if the build-quality involves more metal and less plastic.

Personally, I'd view it as a compliment to your smaller machine, not as a replacement...allowing you to print more and/or bigger things if you want, or develop a need for it while keeping your excellent Mini 8k for small/low volume printing.

I would highly recommend getting a wash & cure of appropriate size to handle the larger prints and build plate...and Phrozen is offering a 15% discount on "add-on options" at this time.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Chris333]

To me a Mars 4 for $200 bucks is a much better deal.

[Peachymike]

The biggest advantage of this machine is the print volume. The resolution compared to your 8k mini is inconsequential. We talk about microns without really understanding how small a measurement it is. 1/1000 of a mm or 0.000039 of an inch, or if you like 25400 microns per inch. The limit of the human eye is about 40 microns, a white blood cell is about 25 microns, a red blood cell is about 8, and a bacterium about 2-3. As Bob noted, the 2.8 micron difference is the same as the bacteria, you will never see it. 22 microns is 0.00086 of an inch, The heated vat is a nice feature, as is the ball screw, but really they bring very little to the overall quality of the print. Things like the quality of the file, dialling in the settings for the resin, setup and orientation of the part, and post print processing will do more to give you a great print. I have 8 printers, my favourite is the Elegoo Saturn 2, so much so that I have 3 of them. The resolution of this machine is 28.5 microns, and when used with a good quality resin and adhering to the above conditions, produces top notch prints with crisp detail. In my opinion, resins are probably the limiting factor of what can be accomplished. Really when you start to factor in such things as light bleed, diffusion, refraction, and how parallel the light is, we are lucky to get 50-60 micron on a print. One issue with the rectangular voxel that may present itself is orientation of the part on the build plate. Angles that work for a square voxel may actually cause the rectangular to enhance rather than minimize the visibility layers on one plane. This is purely speculation on my part as I don’t have a unit with these types of screens. I can’t imagine the math the would be required to figure out angles the would work for these types!
Mike

[Chris333]

I don't understand the "print volume" thing. Most of us are printing in N scale, not LGB. I have never fill up my build plate

[peteski]

The biggest advantage of this machine is the print volume. The resolution compared to your 8k mini is inconsequential. We talk about microns without really understanding how small a measurement it is. 1/1000 of a mm or 0.000039 of an inch, or if you like 25400 microns per inch. T

Mike, but doesn't the resolution relate directly to the smoothness of the printed surfaces, especially curved surfaces?  The higher the resolution, the smoother the stepping is.   What you are saying is comparable to saying that there is no need to take photos using 300dpi resolution, because 75dpi photos will be just as good.

The higher the resolution is, the closed to injection-molded quality the prints will be.  And like Chris said, most of people here are printing items to be used in small scale models (not Legos).  Yes, I'm exaggerating here, but I'm making a point.

[Chris333]

This is left to right 47,35,22,and 18 microns



These are all the printers I've had. Far left is 47 microns with 18 microns inside of it. So just think what it will look like in 5 more years. Or 10.

[Sumner]

I don't understand the "print volume" thing. Most of us are printing in N scale, not LGB. I have never fill up my build plate

What about for larger items on the layout?





I use the Ender 3 Pro filament printer for a lot of items like that.  Not sure one needs a resin printer for items like those.  Might not offer an advantage.  I'm getting ready to print the main building for the sawmill complex and designed board and batten siding that is very close to what I've actually built real structures to.  The resin printer will print it and it looks great holding a printed wall in my hand at 8-10 inches but on the layout it isn't going to be that close and it looks pretty much like a flat wall.

So I think I'll print with either the resin printer or filament printer and keep the same actual dimensions for the siding that I used on the coal mine above even thought they are oversized scale wise.  The mine is ...



... even further from the side of the layout than the saw mill will be and it is hard to make out the board and batten siding from that distance. 

My first resin printer's build plate is a little over 5.5 inches and the current one is a tad under 6.5 inches and has been a good size for about everything I want to print with the resin printer.  So I agree with you in that for most of the smaller N scale items a large volume isn't needed  .

Sumner

[Chris333]

True, but I'd guess the larger you go the less detail you'd expect.

[Jesse6669]

This means that your Mini 8k has the better resolution and will produce theoretically higher quality prints than the $1,000 14k Revo. In reality, however, you're not going to see a 2.8 micron difference...it just will not be visible...so print quality is virtually the same.

Thanks Bob, this is the answer I was looking for.  Auto leveling would be nice, the rest (including a camera to watch the print..) are really frills I don't need.
--Jesse

[Peachymike]

Mike, but doesn't the resolution relate directly to the smoothness of the printed surfaces, especially curved surfaces?  The higher the resolution, the smoother the stepping is.   What you are saying is comparable to saying that there is no need to take photos using 300dpi resolution, because 75dpi photos will be just as good.

The higher the resolution is, the closed to injection-molded quality the prints will be.  And like Chris said, most of people here are printing items to be used in small scale models (not Legos).  Yes, I'm exaggerating here, but I'm making a point.

Technically yes you are correct, but like everything there are compromises and caveats. Things like blur and antialiasing can and do make a huge difference to smooth the layer lines. Using a little trig to calculate the correct angle based on the size of the voxel verses the layer thickness can mitigate almost any lines. I am doing an N2A CPR consolidation and I would challenge you to find a layer line on the boiler. Another factor that is often forgotten is the quality of the file. A drawing program will draw a circle as a series of flat segments, the more segments the smoother the curve. This increases the size of the file of course, and most programs default to a lesser number of triangles (everything in an stl is made up of triangles) to ease processing requirements.
Compared to a picture it’s more like comparing a 300 dpi to a 330 dpi picture, you would hard pressed to see the difference. The resolution of a picture suffers when you blow up the overall size, causing a grainy image. This isn’t necessarily the case with a print.
Honestly I feel that we can already challenge the injection moulded items that are produced commercially. In fact there are things you can do in a print that are impossible with injection moulding due to the requirements of the moulds themselves.
I work in n scale, and after 5 years in resin printing, I am still amazed at what I can make.
Will post a couple pictures later so you can judge for yourself 😊.
Mike.

[robert3985]

True, but I'd guess the larger you go the less detail you'd expect.

I don't expect my Big Boys to be any less detailed than my Consolidations...nor do I expect passenger cars to be less detailed than cabooses.

Larger N-scale prints don't have less fine details than small ones...they just have more length, more width, more height...the rivets are the same size.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Peachymike]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
This is a CPR N2A shell to fit the Bachmann consolidation mechanism, this is a test shot so to speak, and done on a Saturn 2 at 25 micron layers. There are a couple shift lines visible, mostly because it was done on an old fep. I've had numerous people look at these and not be able to detect any layering. Once painted there its pretty hard to tell it was done on a printer and not shot in a mould. The railings are .012 PB and the stanchions are printed with the hole in them. The wire slides right in. The resin is Siraya "fast" navy gray, which I typically get good results with. Siraya "build" also yields good results for parts that need to be a little more structural. Note that the file is only a "medium" definition for testing, for final prints I use "high" definition which is a bigger file, and takes a while to slice and process, but it is also a crisper finished part. Sorry the photo isn't the best, I am too lazy to get the good camera out and this is an old Iphone ( picture so not the best resolution.

[peteski]

Thanks for the photo Mike, but it is taken nowhere near close enough to be able to judge the surface quality.  I guess I would have to see it in person.  In any case, thanks for the explanation.