Author Topic: Modern Wireless DC control  (Read 3478 times)

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peteski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2024, 04:27:23 PM »
0
With Ed worrying about longer-term tech support I wonder if the Chinese-made stuff from eBay is even worse than what Max would offer. After all, sellers and makers of cheap electronic goodies can come and go any time. It is not like Ed would be buying a throttle from a company like MRC.
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2024, 05:32:51 PM »
0
With Ed worrying about longer-term tech support I wonder if the Chinese-made stuff from eBay is even worse than what Max would offer. After all, sellers and makers of cheap electronic goodies can come and go any time. It is not like Ed would be buying a throttle from a company like MRC.

Oh yeah, absolutely, but given the number of those showing up on eBay, they're widely available.

Plus, the support expectations for "something we got cheap off eBay" and "something we got from the one and only Mad Max" are quite a bit different.

Scottl

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2024, 05:54:51 PM »
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I would say a truly mass produced item that is usable for model railroads is pretty state of the art.  We are otherwise in a purgatory of buying limited-run and expensive equipment.

There is zero support for those ebay specials.  The module in question requires you do some sleuthing about which screw terminal is for what.  For $20, I don't expect much, but I can see something like this being very useful to some. 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2024, 06:55:59 PM by Scottl »

mmagliaro

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2024, 06:50:06 PM »
+1
Oh yeah, absolutely, but given the number of those showing up on eBay, they're widely available.

Plus, the support expectations for "something we got cheap off eBay" and "something we got from the one and only Mad Max" are quite a bit different.

Heh, thank you, I think, Ed.  Yes, the cheap off eBay means you are on your own.  Getting it from me means I would rather throw myself off a bridge than have somebody go through life with something from me that didn't work.

All kidding aside...
Those modules you are looking at on eBay use the same sort of ASK messaging protocol I use (that's where I got the idea).   

But...

Some things you really should think about before going with those...  Trust me, I went through this same process, including
testing out modules like that.

1.  Up/down buttons for speed?   Really??  Ewwwww....

2. That coily wire thing for the antenna.  Yeah... don't bet on that for very good range.  If you only need to go about 10 feet, maybe.
But you'd be much better off with a true 1/4 wavelength dipole (yes, a simple 2-wire "rabbit ears" thing).    Notice how
the transmitter comes with a telescoping pull-out old-school antenna.  That's because a straight length of wire works
better than the coily coil.  If you read their "fine print" in the eBay ad, you'll notice that they say their claim for distance
is only valid if you use a straight wire for the antenna.  (In case your wondering, the "straight wire" has to be 17.3 cm long
for the 433 MHz type, and 23.7 cm for 315 MHz.)  So you should mount the receivers high up in the room out of the path of
human bodies, and solder on a length of wire for a real antenna.

3. Interference:
All your hand-helds will be operating on one frequency (315 MHz in your case), or at best
two (you can buy these in 315 or 433 MHz).  If you operate two or more at the same time, they will interfere with each other.
You won't accidentally control the wrong receiver with the wrong transmitter, but neither will get its commands through, and
your train will just keep happily doing whatever it was doing.  That can be really annoying when 2 or 3 operators are holding
down the "speed down button" and the transmitter is streaming out successive "slow down" commands.

4. Direction?  Since the direction is pushbutton, you have no indication of how your direction is set.  At least a mini toggle
would make it intuitive to just flip the toggle to reverse your train.  With those pushbuttons, people will be
pushing "one and then the other one" because who's going to remember which button was which way?

5. Current?
It doesn't say how much current those can handle, but looking at the tiny surface-mount regulator I see on
the receiver board, it can't be much.  Maybe 2 engines' worth in N Scale?

6. Do the users of this thing operate DCC equipped engines?   These modules you are looking at surely use
PWM for their motor control, so you may want to do some testing on a smattering of DCC-equipped engines to make sure
they don't freak out on the PWM.

7. A final note on this part, " of those showing up on eBay, they're widely available."
Don't bet on any of these being able to interoperate with each other.  Many of them don't that I tested.  If a hand-held fails,
you likely will have to just toss out your receivers and transmitters and buy a whole new set of them.

I'm not trying to throw a wet rag on your idea.  Truly, I'm not.  But like I said, I messed around with modules like that,
and these issues are much more of a pain than it might seem when you actually try to operate a train with them.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2024, 06:52:25 PM by mmagliaro »

railnerd

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2024, 06:14:29 PM »
+1
DCC-EX is pretty damn cool— not quite ready for the non-technical masses, though.

-Dave

Sumner

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2024, 07:45:02 PM »
0
DCC-EX is pretty damn cool— not quite ready for the non-technical masses, though.

-Dave

If you only want a DCC Command Station and just want to run trains with it anyone that can download a program to use from the internet should have no problems.  The build is really simple now with no soldering or electrical/electronics skills needed and....


.... takes less than a half hour to do.  The software now is taken care of by the auto-installer so now trying to get sketches on an Arduino or any other programing skills needed.

But yes if you want to get into automatic operations, the DC TrackManageror use the Turntable controller or other advanced features it is going to require someone who thrives on those kind of things.  I compare it to say installing an ESU LokSound sound decoder.  Pretty simple if you don't want to modified anything but if you do the effort can go way up depending on how/what you are trying to accomplish.

Sumner
« Last Edit: February 07, 2024, 08:15:03 PM by Sumner »
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

peteski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2024, 07:49:00 PM »
+1


From how I interpreted Ed's need, he is looking for a simple wireless DC throttle. Something that comes in a box, simple hookup, and can be used on a club layout by non-technical modelers. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2024, 07:52:23 PM by peteski »
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ednadolski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2024, 08:47:10 PM »
0


From how I interpreted Ed's need, he is looking for a simple wireless DC throttle. Something that comes in a box, simple hookup, and can be used on a club layout by non-technical modelers.

Hummm, looks like someone's been nipping at the Żubrówka before working on a project.....   :o

Ed

peteski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2024, 10:20:43 PM »
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Hummm, looks like someone's been nipping at the Żubrówka before working on a project.....   :o

Ed

LOL! Thanks for the chuckle ED!
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mmagliaro

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2024, 10:46:07 PM »
+3
Pete, I'm so glad you posted that photo, because I learned something from it.  I hunted it down on the internet to see if it was real, found
that it was, and that it was a circuit constructed by Bob Pease, analog electronics genius.  That led me to read all about Mr. Pease's life,
which included how he sadly died in a car accident on his way home from the funeral of another analog genius, and dear friend
of his, Jim Williams.  Who says you can't learn anything from the internet?

peteski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2024, 11:06:22 PM »
0
Pete, I'm so glad you posted that photo, because I learned something from it.  I hunted it down on the internet to see if it was real, found
that it was, and that it was a circuit constructed by Bob Pease, analog electronics genius.  That led me to read all about Mr. Pease's life,
which included how he sadly died in a car accident on his way home from the funeral of another analog genius, and dear friend
of his, Jim Williams.  Who says you can't learn anything from the internet?

LOL Max, I didn't expect that!  You're very welcome. I just searched for a really complex circuit and I liked the rat's nest of wires.

I also spotted what looks like couple of National Semiconductor Databooks holding up the scope in the background.  I still have few in my library, along with several others from other chip manufacturers. Ah the days of looking up chip specs in Yellow-Page-size databooks and bookmarking pages with napkins.  Those were the days!
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2024, 05:19:16 PM »
+1
Success!!!

/>
Not bad for $20.

Would I want to use it for my home layout? No way.

But is it an easy solution for a TTRAK layout? I think it just might be.

Now to test the range.

Scottl

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2024, 05:51:44 PM »
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Cool!  The speed steps seem a bit large though.  Might be able to add a resistor or lower the track voltage?

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Modern Wireless DC control
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2024, 06:18:31 PM »
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Oh yeah. Absolutely.

But you're thinking "home layout".

I'm thinking "display layout, just need to be able to stop it when it derails".

It's a very different world.