Quality Streetcar models in Nscale

[Dwight in Toronto]

R L Smith - really nice photo, and love the colours on that PCC (who knew there were SP Daylight streetcars!).  Hmmmm - now I’m thinking I need to add windshield wipers.

So, the “cable” was actually ROPE … interesting.  And yes, I intentionally drilled the hole on the left of that bell housing - thanks for noticing! 

And the “hair” jibes just won’t let up - LOL!

[peteski]

Yes, it is a rope specifically to be flexible and non-conductive as the motorman might actually have to pull on it to reengage the pole to the wire (if it slips off), or to pull the pole down to disconnect it from the catenary.   At least that is as I understand it.  I also wonder what happens when he rope gets wet.  Will the motorman experience a bit of a tingle? 

[bbunge]

I remember the retriever ropes being white/grey.  Think clothes line rope.  Over time, the lower sections, where the operators would pull the rope to lower/raise the pole, would turn darker with handling as you might expect.  When the poles are raised, there can be some slack, depending on the how the retriever is working that day. 

If the wire is really to scale, I would question if it would all that visible from more than 3 feet.    Note the example photo is a doubled PCC.

Fun fact.  You don't need hands to operate a PCC.  It is operated with foot controls.  This was a big deal because it freed up the operators to do things like take fare and tickets.  Many what I call 2nd generation street cars were designed for two man operation.  A motorman and a conductor/fare collector.  Many systems modified these cars as early as the 1920's for one man operation to reduce labor costs, so one man operation would have been near the top of the President's (commission) requirements for the new car. 

[brill27mcb]

There seems to be a lack of trolley-specific knowledge here.

First, what PCC cars (and most trolleys) had was a "catcher". It would always have the rope under tension, and if the pole came off the overhead wire, the catcher had centrifugally-activated lugs on the rope winding drum inside, which would rotate outward, hitting lugs on the the inside of the catcher housing and stopping the catcher drum. So the pole would go partway up off the wire and then stop. Then the operator would use the rope to pull the pole back down and re-wire it.

Interurbans and higher-speed trolleys would use a "retriever" which looked similar but worked differently. It also kept the rope constantly undersome tension. Inside the retriever was not only a rope drum but also a pre-tensioned coiled strap spring. When the pole de-wired and flew up into the air, the spring would be activated and would use the rope to yank the pole back down to the roof, hard. This was to avoid having the raised de-wired pole hitting successive overhead cross-span wires or supports and damaging them before the trolley could be stopped. Retrievers can be dangerous to work with, because the pre-tensioned spring is strong enough to out-pull the springs of the trolley pole base. (Pacific Electric had a variation - they used pneumatic retrievers mounted on the pole base to quickly yank a de-wired pole back down to the roof.)

Also, the front dash lighting was generally done to illuminate the dash at night. This helped motorists to make sense of a single headlight on the street at night in later years vs automobiles that had 2 headlights.

Rich K.

[nickelplate759]

Obviously, Trolley-busses had (and have) these too - and they have two - because there are two wires.  Twice the fun when the poles come off the wires.

[johnb]

who knew there were SP Daylight streetcars!

um...any Pacific Electric fan!

The red is Santa Fe Red, the orange is Daylight Orange, and IF the roof was gray, Union Pacific Harbor Mist, which is a standard military color

[Dwight in Toronto]

Rich K … I’m the first to admit that I know diddly-squat about streetcars (or, at least, that was the case until I started this little project); thanks for sharing your insight and expertise.  I’ve been learning a lot!

Just for the record, I’m truly not 100% on that trolley pole rope on my model, so I’m still on the hunt for better contenders (Peter - I retrieved a length of white human hair from a basement stair yesterday and placed it on the workbench, just in case!).

[Dwight in Toronto]

So, back to the workbench to examine potential N scale streetcar pole-ropes.

Here are the main contenders, shown from left to right:
a) ESU decoder wire, with insulation burned off using gas stove open flame
b) 0402 prewired LED wire with insulation burned off (presently on the model with insulation)
c) human hair (actually looks ‘thicker’ in the photo than IRL … it is REALLY thin, barely visible)
d) high D string, ‘light gauge’, from my 5-string bluegrass banjo (VERY stiff, relative to the others)



I’m leaning towards b), but wanted to share my investigation with the group!

[mcjaco]

So Dwight, no human hair anywhere in sight?     I guess the peer pressure didn't work well this time.
Just kidding.   

The LED lead wire looks acceptable. but I'm thinking that if it is a stranded wire, you could strip the insulation and just use a single wire strand.  That would be more in-scale.

I did that on an early attempt at tie downs on an old Red Caboose centerbeam car.  It was small enough to look "right."  I used a paint pen to lightly brush the wire strand so as not to glom up the wire strand with paint.

Really enjoying this thread.  Been look at building a small interurban shelf layout for my condo. 

[peteski]

Just for the record, I’m truly not 100% on that trolley pole rope on my model, so I’m still on the hunt for better contenders (Peter - I retrieved a length of white human hair from a basement stair yesterday and placed it on the workbench, just in case!).

 

And now we have information from someone who actually used a hair for their model.  Painting will likely thicken it slightly. But as shown, white is actually prototypical. If that is not a desired color, I would color it with a Sharpie permanent marker. They are available in a number of colors, and the ink is thinner than any paint, so it will leave the "rope" as thin as possible.

[robert3985]

You could possibly use normal dressmaking cotton thread which should be finer or the finest (thinnest)  fishing line - just thinking outside my box 

Cotton thread can be had in various "deniers" (diameters), but before use it needs to be de-fuzzed, which can be easily done by running it through a small cake of real beeswax a few times, then running it through your fingers while pinching it to heat it up and melt the wax into the thread, which lays the fuzz down too.  I learned that trick when I was building and selling scratch-built sailing ship models when I was stationed in Charleston SC and at Whidbey Island NAS on the Washington coast back in the early 70's.

Frankly, all of the possible solutions in the OP's photo look to be about twice the diameter they should be, so maybe doing the cotton or polyester thread trick with the beeswax is the easiest solution.

If the OP doesn't have Harbor Freight digital calipers, it's time to go get one...an absolutely necessary tool for around 20 bucks when attempting to make something in N-scale look realistic.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Since we are enjoying this subject, if that pull down cord was 0.5" in diameter (which would be quite a bit thicker than clothesline), that would be 0.003" in N scale.  More likely closer to 0.25", which would be 0.0016". Human hair (mine) is about 0.0015".

But after some thinking I also realize that the pole itself is quite a bit thicker than what a properly scaled pole should look like. So I'm withdrawing my idea for using human hair for the pull down cord.    Surgical suture would likely be the best solution. I suspect it is quite limp and no fuzz to deal with.  Waxed thread is rather stiff in short lengths.

[Sokramiketes]

The first time I saw someone model the tie downs on an empty centerbeam flatcar was in the 1990s by John Hill.  He bought (or stole from his daughter) a pack of black Barbie replacement hair.  At the time there was a hair stylist Barbie, and you could cut the dolls hair, style it, whatever, then rip it out of her scalp and replace with fresh locks. 

The fine black hair strands looked great.

I like the suture silk idea though. 

[Dwight in Toronto]

Mr. Gilmore - thanks for again sharing additional experience and suggestions.  I have always enjoyed your RailWire contributions, and genuinely admire the uncompromising attention to detail that you and others bring to the forum. 

I do try to be similarly discerning, and I believe that being more particular is worth striving for.  But when skill, materials and/or tools occasionally fall short, I reluctantly resort to being accepting of “good enough” (while resolving to improve upon the calibre of any shortcomings).

Such is the case here.  I do not (yet) have digital calipers, but will look into them.  And the amount of beeswax at-hand is, regrettably, no more plentiful than those silk sutures! 
The suggestions, of course, are helpful, appreciated, and have been duly noted.  Thanks again for taking the time to chime in.

Peteski - for a minute there, I was sure that you were going to insist that I re-model the pole!

Sokramiketes - with three granddaughters, all younger than 6 years old, I have a playroom with a plethora of Barbies to steal hair from … I’m off to have a look!

[peteski]

Such is the case here.  I do not (yet) have digital calipers, but will look into them.  And the amount of beeswax at-hand is, regrettably, no more plentiful than those silk sutures! 
The suggestions, of course, are helpful, appreciated, and have been duly noted.  Thanks again for taking the time to chime in.

Peteski - for a minute there, I was sure that you were going to insist that I re-model the pole!

Neah, I didn't want to go that far. Everybody has their limitations. 

Candle wax (paraffin) should work just as well as beeswax for de-fuzzing thread.