True Color Paint experiences?

[ATSF_Ron]

Happy 3-day MLK weekend, Railwire folks!  I'm wondering if some of you might share your experiences with True Color Paints in an airbrush.  I used some for weathering a couple of inexpensive Lifelike SP SD-7s.  While I'm generally quite pleased with the end results, I have two concerns.

1)  This paint was, for me, a huge PITA to airbrush.  I tried to use it straight out of the bottle, as recommended on their own paint bottle, but it clogged my airbrush.  I tried thinning it in various ratios and airbrush pressures.  I should have written this down but I didn't.  I finally ended up with satisfactory results, but it still seemed to dry ridiculously fast.  This was a problem because if I set the model down for even 30 seconds to review my work, the paint dried up in the tip of the airbrush.  I spent the better part of two hours airbrushing ONE loco, and most of that time was disassembling the airbrush and cleaning!  I'm using a Badger #200 and True Color thinner, if that has any bearing on things.

2)  I'm not so sure this stuff is safe on top of factory paint.  The bottle says it contains acetone, which might be a problem.  I'm not sure.  But after a couple of years the paint is flaking off on the nose of one unit, but not the other unit. (This was last year.) By flaking off, I mean down to the bare plastic.  However, there's another twist which may account for this.  Somewhere (online or magazine) I read of a weathering technique using weathering powders mixed with a little Dullcote.  I had found a color photo of an old and grimy SP SD7/9 which looked great, and I wanted to try to emulate that condition on one of my SD-7s.  I mixed up various shades of soot, road grime, and dust with the Dullcote and applied a generous helping to mostly the roof areas with some on the sides and nose.  I'm quite sure the weathering powders aren't the problem, as I've used them on many plastic locos and cars with no issues.  It's the Dullcote that has me wondering.  Since the other weathered unit did not get the Dullcote/powder treatment, my guess is that's the issue.  Or possibly the Dullcote doesn't play well with True Color Paints?  I have no clue.

I've got an undec Atlas GP7 that needs painting/weathering.  I have the correct colors in True Color paints, but with this first experience using them, IDK if I want to invest the time & effort, only to have to strip it and redo the work.  If anyone has any advice/commentary on either of my problems listed above, I'm all ears!  Thanks!

Ron

[Jim Starbuck]

Here’s what I do:
On an undec shell I start with Mr Surfacer 1000 rattle can primer.
With Tru Color I thin it about 40% with lacquer thinner. I’ve never used the Tru Color thinner so have no experience there. The lacquer thinner slows the drying enough to eliminate that instant dry of the acetone but not too slow that it will lift the primer.
It dries to a slightly gloss finish that accepts decals well without the need for a gloss coat.
I can’t speak on using DullCoat as a final finish because I use Mr. Super clear matte which I prefer over DullCoat.
The first time I used TruColor I had similar results as you did. Because of the acetone it dried almost before hitting the model which led to poor adhesion.
Hope this helps.

[robert3985]

I'm in the midst of doing several fantasy PRR schemes on modern Kato diesels, and I'm using tru-color paints exclusively for this job.

Although tru-color paints says that their paint is ready to use straight out of the bottle, my decades of airbrush experience told me that the paint was much too thick for use without thinning.

Additionally, tru-color paint also suggests a very high air pressure, much higher than any I've used in my Paasche airbrushes on any project, either art or models, since I learned how to airbrush back in the early 1970's.  Anything over 20psi for applying paint to models is too high IMO.

So, I bought tru-color thinner after reading that it contains retarders to keep the acetone in it from drying too quickly, which will produce "orange peel" and other bad paint finishes possibly.

Ideally, you want the paint to go on wet, but not so wet that it runs, but wet enough so that it levels while on the model before drying...which produces a very smooth, even coat.

I started at a 50/50 mix of paint/thinner, but that was too thin...and settled on a roughly 66/33% paint/thinner mix that worked really well on the plastic spoons I use to test paint/air pressures/distance when I'm using a new paint.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that before I thin, combine or spray ANY paint, I mix it thoroughly with my Badger 121 Paint Mixer.  With tru-color paint, I put about 2" of Acetone in a plain ol' tin can, then place the mixer (while it's OFF) into the Acetone, turn it on and it's clean.  I then, lift it barely out of the Acetone while it's still running and let it spin the excess Acetone off...hitting the sides of the tin can on the inside.  I then turn off the mixer, take my finger off the switch and remove it from the tin can.  You definitely do NOT want to turn it on while the mixer has paint or thinner on it...because it will get you and your surroundings paint splattered instantly.


Photo (1) - Badger 121 Paint Mixer:




I'm not using a primer on the plastic models I'm painting, and I don't find it to be necessary.  However, I'll be using primer on my brass models using tru-color paint because of adhesion problems on metal that I've read about.

I settled on an air pressure of between 15 and 18 psi at around six to eight inches from my model.  This combination worked great for an "as new" glossy, smooth paint finish on my stripped Kato bodies.

I did not get any excessive drying of paint on the nozzle of my airbrush, or clogging whatsoever, but I am using a fairly large bottle (not a cup) on my Paasche VL with a #2 head on it...so there would be very little evaporation of thinner from the paint in the bottle, as opposed to maybe some in a cup with its open top.

I have an oil-less compressor with a water trap on it, and an in-line Paasche moisture trap on my all of my airbrush hoses.

I also give my shells a good bath in warm (almost hot) water with Dawn Dishwashing Soap, then rinse...and dry with the help of blowing compressed air on the model.

Additionally, I brush on Bestine (Hexane) to get any waxes or non-water soluble oils or waxes off of the stripped models.

I don't handle them before painting (applying all layers) without wearing Nitrile gloves after my initial washing.

Airbrush cleanup is a cinch using straight Acetone in a clean bottle with no residual paint anywhere either externally or internally on my airbrush, using an old brush and Acetone to remove any paint from the exterior of my airbrush.

As for weathering, I haven't used any of the tru-color paints weathering paints yet because I have a very good stock of Polly-Scale weathering paints, and I'm getting into doing much of my weathering using artist's oil paints and Tamiya Panel Liner.

Decal application on the gloss finish is excellent, and when I'm finished with the project, I'll give the shells a brushing of Bestine to get rid of my finger oils, then apply a sealing coat of tru-color paint semi-gloss.

I don't know if that helps or not, but that's my experience with tru-color paint so far, and it's all been positive.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Angus Shops]

I generally like Tru-Color paint very much, which is good thing because it’s pretty much the only game in town now, particularly for CP colours. It does need to be thinned or it will not spray at all in my experience. I didn’t realize that they claim it can be sprayed straight from the bottle (good thing I don’t read instructions…). I the airbrush I use mostly CP gray and CP Tuscan and I find the gray has excellent coverage but the Tuscan tends to be a little translucent. I throughly stir it and I try not to thin it too much, but it seems to be a very thin line between thinned too much and not spraying, and very careful and patient technique is required. But the finish product is usually very good.
A selection of their colours are available in rattle cans and I use them for anything that doesn’t require the precision of an airbrush and the colour is appropriate, including my go-to ‘boxcar red’.
I find that it absolutely cannot be brush painted or it will almost instantaneously dissolve the paint it’s going over. You can touch up with it but only if you can ‘dab on’ a spot of paint with no movement of the brush.

[C855B]

...I find that it absolutely cannot be brush painted or it will almost instantaneously dissolve the paint it’s going over. You can touch up with it but only if you can ‘dab on’ a spot of paint with no movement of the brush.

Amen to that, bro'. I ruined an expensive Shapeways shell doing this. You can't strip paint from those.

I had great success spraying True Color without dilution, but I have given up on this paint. It does not keep. Not in those plastic bottles. I don't paint all that often, and buying too far in advance of projects means that I have a couple dozen wasted bottles loitering on the bench. Maybe I can recover with a little bit of acetone or lacquer thinner, but I've moved on to high-quality acrylics like Vallejo.

[wazzou]

There’s almost nothing more frustrating in this hobby, for me at least than grabbing a bottle of paint, only to find it’s completely congealed.   
I had this happen 9/10 times with Accupaint.

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks for the suggestions, gents. I’ve also had several bottles congeal after what I consider a short time. At $5.99/ bottle that’s a lot of wasted cash! 😡

Bob, now that you mention it I do recall this paint needing a lot higher pressure than others.  Do you think yellow will cover ok without a primer coat?

[mu26aeh]

That's funny everyone says they need to thin TC paint.  I use it straight out of the bottle and beside the last thing I used an older bottle of yellow for, I've never had any issues.

[Peachymike]

I use TCP for most of my diesels, thin it with acetone about 1/3 acetone to 2/3 paint. Spray around 18-20 psi.  I get great results and a very thin coat with good wear resistance. The colours are a good match to the prototype in my opinion, only knock is the smell of the acetone. Expensive (10 a bottle in Canada) but good coverage and it doesn’t bury detail. CPR yellow is one of the few yellows that actually covers in one coat. If it thickens in the bottle adding a bit of acetone thins it out again. Only time I have problems is when the guy in the mirror does poor prep work. Otherwise my favourite paint.
Mike

[peteski]

As a long time user of Accu-Paint I was really happy to find out that Tru-COlor paint is pretty much the same as Accu-Paint.  I was told that it is not a paint but solvent-based ink. Whatever it is, it works really well shot through airbrush. The other posts already give good painting technique.

I'll a$$ that I highly recommend using their own thinner.  While it is acetone-based, it is a blend of other solvents which have slower evaporation rate.  That is why it is the best to use the dedicated thinner.  They also sell the slower evaporation solvents as "R E T A R D E R". It is worth to have around to add to the mixture as needed.

I had to spell that word in a strange way becuase the forum's "naughty" filter was censoring it. 

Both Accu-Paint and Tru-Color use those silly plastic bottles where the solvent seems to evaporate through the plastic or the cap seal.  Really poor packaging.  I found a solution to the problem:  As soon as I buy a new bottle, I re-bottle them into standard Foquill 1oz. glass bottles.  I also add an aluminum seal over the standard seal on the Floquil caps. I also add couple of glass beads as agitators. Then I screw the lid on tightly and shake the bottle to have the paint inside the bottle to seal the lip of the bottle.  I have some bottles of still perfectly usable Accu-Paints that are about 30 years old. 



Here is an example of the glass bottles holding my paints.  I originally started doing that when Accu-Paint went out of business with no hope of a replacement paint.

As you can see, I take a fine permanent marker and mark the paint level and the month/year the bottle was last sealed.  As shown, some have not been opened for quite a few years and almost no  thinner has evaporated. The bottle on the left is Tru-Color, the other 2 are Accu-Paints.  Yes, I realize what I do is a lot of extra work, but to me it is well worth it.

One more thing:  these paints are not enamels (more like lacquers), so if the dried up paint is still even slightly liquid, it can be reconstituted by adding the Tru-Color thinner.  I have also done that successfully.

[robert3985]

Thanks for the suggestions, gents. I’ve also had several bottles congeal after what I consider a short time. At $5.99/ bottle that’s a lot of wasted cash! 😡

Bob, now that you mention it I do recall this paint needing a lot higher pressure than others.  Do you think yellow will cover ok without a primer coat?

Since I paint a lot of yellow...being a UP fanboy...I always use grey primer on anything that's gonna get Armour Yellow paint...no matter what brand of paint I'm using. 

I've still got a stock of Armour Yellow (UP Yellow) Scalecoat II, which is my favorite shade of yellow for UP, so I haven't tried tru-color paint yet.

BUT...I will assume that tru-color paint Yellows will be like all the others and require a primer unless you want to put 8 coats of paint on your model.

Additionally, many of my Armour Yellow projects, such as MTL wooden UP cabooses, or Intermountain 50' boxcars, or old Golden West UP CA-3/4 caboose kits, are molded in yellow plastic, which is always translucent, so I spray them with grey primer first to make them opaque, and secondly, to make my yellow paint cover in one coat.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

As a long time user of Accu-Paint I was really happy to find out that Tru-COlor paint is pretty much the same as Accu-Paint.  I was told that it is not a paint but solvent-based ink. Whatever it is, it works really well shot through airbrush. The other posts already give good painting technique.

I'll a$$ that I highly recommend using their own thinner.  While it is acetone-based, it is a blend of other solvents which have slower evaporation rate.  That is why it is the best to use the dedicated thinner.  They also sell the slower evaporation solvents as "R E T A R D E R". It is worth to have around to add to the mixture as needed.

I had to spell that word in a strange way becuase the forum's "naughty" filter was censoring it. 

Both Accu-Paint and Tru-Color use those silly plastic bottles where the solvent seems to evaporate through the plastic or the cap seal.  Really poor packaging.  I found a solution to the problem:  As soon as I buy a new bottle, I re-bottle them into standard Foquill 1oz. glass bottles.  I also add an aluminum seal over the standard seal on the Floquil caps. I also add couple of glass beads as agitators. Then I screw the lid on tightly and shake the bottle to have the paint inside the bottle to seal the lip of the bottle.  I have some bottles of still perfectly usable Accu-Paints that are about 30 years old. 



Here is an example of the glass bottles holding my paints.  I originally started doing that when Accu-Paint went out of business with no hope of a replacement paint.

As you can see, I take a fine permanent marker and mark the paint level and the month/year the bottle was last sealed.  As shown, some have not been opened for quite a few years and almost no  thinner has evaporated. The bottle on the left is Tru-Color, the other 2 are Accu-Paints.  Yes, I realize what I do is a lot of extra work, but to me it is well worth it.

One more thing:  these paints are not enamels (more like lacquers), so if the dried up paint is still even slightly liquid, it can be reconstituted by adding the Tru-Color thinner.  I have also done that successfully.

@peteski  Very good advice Peter!  I have one question and one thing to add about tru-color paints.

Question:  Do you have a source for clear glass bottles like the old Floquil bottles you're showing???

Add: Tru-color paint used to sell what they called "Rejuvenator" (TCP-999-16 or -2), but when looking at their site today, I can't find it.  I am going to bet that it was just their thinner in a differently labeled bottle.  It can still be found online, for about the same price as their thinner, so I'm going to bet that's the case.

Tru-color paint says in their old literature that for dried-up paints, just fill the bottle back up, wait a spell, and you'll have viable paint again.

I think I'm gonna order a 16oz bottle of it while it's still available at various hobby shops...just in case it isn't merely "thinner".

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

...I find that it absolutely cannot be brush painted or it will almost instantaneously dissolve the paint it’s going over. You can touch up with it but only if you can ‘dab on’ a spot of paint with no movement of the brush.

When reading the instructions/information at the tru-color paint website, they state very clearly that it is "not brushable."

However, they are making a line of "brushable" tru-color paint, specifically formulated to apply using a paintbrush.  I'm not sure if it will dissolve the paint it's going over or not, but, it WILL brush.

They're also making a line of tru-color specialty paint that is specifically formulated to apply to "3D printed and cast resin parts and models."  I'll make sure I try some when I get my in-development UP stuff finished and printed!

It appears they are pretty much on top of painting trends as well as new materials becoming more commonly used for models.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[MK]

@peteski  Very good advice Peter!  I have one question and one thing to add about tru-color paints.

Question:  Do you have a source for clear glass bottles like the old Floquil bottles you're showing???

Paasche makes them.  I'm sure any real art store will have them like Dick  Blick.  Maybe even Michael's or Hobby Lobby.

https://www.towerhobbies.com/product/paint-jar-cover-and-gasket1ozhvl/PASH194.html

[peteski]

@peteski  Very good advice Peter!  I have one question and one thing to add about tru-color paints.

Question:  Do you have a source for clear glass bottles like the old Floquil bottles you're showing???

Add: Tru-color paint used to sell what they called "Rejuvenator" (TCP-999-16 or -2), but when looking at their site today, I can't find it.  I am going to bet that it was just their thinner in a differently labeled bottle.  It can still be found online, for about the same price as their thinner, so I'm going to bet that's the case.

Tru-color paint says in their old literature that for dried-up paints, just fill the bottle back up, wait a spell, and you'll have viable paint again.

I think I'm gonna order a 16oz bottle of it while it's still available at various hobby shops...just in case it isn't merely "thinner".

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Hi Bob,
I used to get those empty Floquil (1oz. and 1/2oz.) bottles in 6-packs originally from Walthers, then from Micro Mark.  Originally they came in boxes marked "Floquil", but later they just had generic marks.  I also recycle old Floquil bottles where I either used up the paint, or they congealed.



These are the most recent packages I bought.  The "DF" numbers appear to be the part numbers.   Maybe that will help you to find them somewhere.  I suspect these bottles were made by some company that makes all sorts of bottles. Maybe Freund Container company might have them available. Or maybe amazon?  I know there are lots of glass bottles available on amazon, but most have small necks and plastic caps with cone-shaped nylon seals.



Speaking of seals, I mentioned that I add my own aluminum seal to the bottle cap.  My source for aluminum are the disposable roasting trays from the dollar store.  I use one of the original cardboard seals and trace it onto the aluminum, then cut them out using curved scissors.  I still keep the cardboard seal, and add the aluminum one over it.



My stash of Accu-Paints and Tru-Color Paints

I have never used or even heard of the Tru-Color "Rejuvenator".  When you get it you could problably compare it to the plain thinner by smell to see if it is different. Attached is MSDS for their thinner. As you can see, acetone contents is only around 35%, which confirms that using pure acetone for the thinner is not recommended (will cause it to dry too fast.  The other chemicals slow down the evaporation.