Decal issue

[ATSF_Ron]

Brokemoto, I did all of those things, minus the flat finish.

Decals were removed successfully. Next up is the gloss coat. I know there are many options, but I’ve never had the need for a gloss coat. Most of my decal application has been factory painted but unlettered models. I did paint a few of my own, but those were all glossy paint.  What do you guys prefer? I do have an airbrush and like the results better than a rattle can. Especially in N scale.

[mecgp7]

Soak time and temp of the water play roles in applying decals. I learned an important lesson right here on the "Wire" that you want to use as little soak time as possible because there is only so much adhesive on the underside of the decals. Soak too long and it gets washed away. No amount of decal solution will make them stick. I found that warm water for soaking decals allows for faster soak time thus quicker application.

[peteski]

As I understand the slippery dextrose-based "adhesive" is not really an adhesive or needed for the decals to stick.  It's just a carrier for the clear film to be dissolved at the time of the applications.  I have read many military model build write-ups in FineScale Modeler magazine where the modeler actually immerses the decal in water long enough for the decal to float off the paper, then using a brush scoops it up from the water and applies it to the model.

[wazzou]

Yeah, I’d have to agree, that in my experiences, just when it’s easily removed is the glory condition.

[nkalanaga]

Peteski:  I read of that back in the 60s, when decals had think film, what some referred to as "battleship linoleum", and the results worked fine.  I don't know that I'd try it with today's thin films, though, because they'd probably just wad up when lifted.

But you're right about the adhesive.  I have several sheets of custom decals where the paper maker seems to have left the adhesive off.  When I try to cut the decal, the film comes off the paper while I'm cutting.  But with a little water, it goes on the model fine, and setting solution settles it down as well as any other decal.

[peteski]

Peteski:  I read of that back in the 60s, when decals had think film, what some referred to as "battleship linoleum", and the results worked fine.  I don't know that I'd try it with today's thin films, though, because they'd probably just wad up when lifted.

I was not reading modeling magazines in the '60s.     I read about letting the decal float off the paper in FineScale Modeler magazine (more than once) in the last 20 years.

[ATSF_Ron]

Sidebar on decaling...I scored this nice SP GP9, painted but unlettered.  I have the Kodachrome merger decal sheet from the late 80s, so I was skeptical it would work.  I've had bad luck with old decals before.




As luck would have it, the actual road number I needed was already there on my decal sheet.  Fireman's side went on without a hitch.  When I got to the engineer's side I had a little snafu which turned into a big one.  As I slid the decal off the paper, the second "3" split in two vertically and at an angle.  I was thinking it was a loss, but I played with it just a bit and managed a perfectly laid decal with no visible seam!  I was happy.  I let it sit a couple minutes and then applied the Micro Sol.  Big mistake.  I came back after about 15 mins to check on it and apparently the Micro Sol didn't play well with the old decal.  It was broken apart like broken glass, leaving the digits unusable.  I find that odd, as the other side was perfectly fine.  Maybe it wasn't the Micro Sol, IDK.  Anyway, I redid the engineer's side but with NO Micro Sol and it's fine.







Weather has been funky lately with lots of rain and lower temps, so I haven't done any airbrush work in the garage, my go to space for that.  I have on hand this can of Krylon matte, which I've used before, but only on Scalecoat II.  I don't know what Atlas used for paint, but I'm a bit hesitant to use this stuff for fear of ruining a great factory paint scheme.  It says "contains acetone" on the can.  That and the old decals give me pause in using it.  Since it's rattle can, I'd only be putting on a very like coat.



Does anyone have experience using this Krylon matte on older Micro Scale decals or factory Atlas paint?  The can says it dries in 15 mins but a 2nd coat can be applied in 2 mins if needed.  Thanks.

Ron

[ATSF_Ron]

You may not be able to tell from the photo, but I had to use individual digits on the engineer's side.  The decal film is slightly more visible but not objectionable.  I plan on adding the usual SP grime to this loco, so I'm not too worried about the decal film.

[nkalanaga]

I don't know about the Krylon.  Since you don't know what kind of paint Atlas used, and the decals have already given trouble, I think I'd stick with something less aggressive, like Dullcote, or maybe Tamiya flat.

[peteski]

With 30-year-old decals (from the '80s) the chances are good that the clear film is very fragile or even shattered before application.  You car restore them by brushing several  layers of Microscale clear decal film over the entire sheet.  That is an alcohol-based clear film which I believe is identical to what Microscale uses when producing their decals.  That will make the decals usable, but you will have to trim each image individually (since the clear film will have to be trimmed close to the images).

[nickelplate759]

With 30-year-old decals (from the '80s) the chances are good that the clear film is very fragile or even shattered before application.  You car restore them by brushing several  layers of Microscale clear decal film over the entire sheet.  That is an alcohol-based clear film which I believe is identical to what Microscale uses when producing their decals.  That will make the decals usable, but you will have to trim each image individually (since the clear film will have to be trimmed close to the images).

By the way, do not trim the decal first, then apply Microscale Liquid Decal Film.   The Film will soak into and around the cut edges and make getting the decal off difficult.   Don't ask how I know...

[wazzou]

If I am using older decals, I almost always spray the decal sheet with a clear coat, usually a Satin.
This has always done a good job of holding things together.

[Peavine]

Brokemoto, I did all of those things, minus the flat finish.

Decals were removed successfully. Next up is the gloss coat. I know there are many options, but I’ve never had the need for a gloss coat. Most of my decal application has been factory painted but unlettered models. I did paint a few of my own, but those were all glossy paint.  What do you guys prefer? I do have an airbrush and like the results better than a rattle can. Especially in N scale.

I use Tamiya clear gloss and flat. They go on easily and dry very thin so they never obscure any detail. They are the best things I’ve found for clearcoat in 40 years of modeling. The nice thing about them is that you can then do enamel washes and wipe off some of the wash with a Q-tip and odorless paint thinner without damaging the clearcoat.

[ATSF_Ron]

I discovered a brand new and unopened bottle of Dullcote in one of my boxes of modeling supplies.  The price sticker says The Train Shop in Santa Clara.  Last time I was over there was probably 2013/2014, so this stuff is ten years old at least.  The label on back says Testors Corp. 2007, so I assume this is the old formula.  I know the formula was changed some time ago, but I'm not sure when.  From research I've done, most people don't care for the newer formula as it's more satin than flat.  Didn't Rustoleum or another big company buy the Testors line?

I also discovered a gallon container of 100% mineral spirits in the garage.  Can this be used safely to thin Dullcote if necessary for airbrushing?  And by safely, I mean safe for a plastic Atlas factory painted shell?

Peavine, is it Tamiya 81022?  Do you airbrush yours?  I'm thinking I want to stay away from rattle cans because of the small size/details in N and the unknown effects of propellants on the paint.  The WOT Harriman cars are undec but painted by someone else.  I have no clue what paint he used.

The Krylon Matte in the pics above was great on a USA Trains 1:29 project I did a few years ago.  I just think it might be heavy for my GP-9 application.

[peteski]

No Dullcote lacquer should not be thinned with mineral spirits (like other Testors PLA Enamel paints).  I exclusively use lacquer thinner.

As for the flat finish, I don't like my N scale  models to be dead flat.  I actually use a blend of Dullcote and Glosscote to get a nice semigloss/satin finish. That looks to me more realistic than dead flat.  If you look at factory made models, (like MTL) they are not dead flat either.

And like George mentioned (and I didn't even think of mentioning it), when spraying a rejuvenating clear coat over old decals, always spray over uncut sheet.